Re: [gothic-l] Re: háils

Manie Lombard manielombard at CHELLO.AT
Mon Jul 19 12:19:53 UTC 2004 

Háils Francis

Would you reconstruct January, June and July with "j" or "i"?

Manie


----- Original Message -----
From: "Francisc Czobor" <fericzobor at yahoo.com>
To: <gothic-l at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 12:58 PM
Subject: [gothic-l] Re: háils


Hi Manie,

naúbaímbaír is correct, being attested in the Gothic calendar
fragment of the 6th century
(http://www.wulfila.be/gothic/text/minora/Kalender.html).
There, November is also called "fruma Juleis" ("first Yule"), thus
it's almost sure that December (very probablu *daíkaímbaír, as
reconstructed by you) was alternatively called *anthar Juleis
("second Yule").

Francisc

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "Manie Lombard" <manielombard at c...>
wrote:
> Háils Llama Nom
>
>
>
> Thank you very much for your reply!!! Has anybody already tried to
reconstruct the Gothic names according to the Old English names?
>
>
>
> My attempt (according to the Latin forms):
>
>
>
> January: *januarius (or *ianuarius?)
>
> February: *faíbruarius
>
> March: *martius
>
> April: *aprilis
>
> May: *maius
>
> June: *junius (*iunius?)
>
> July: *julius (*iulius?)
>
> August: *awgustus
>
> September: *saíptaímbaír
>
> October: *aúktaúbaír
>
> November: naúbaímbaír
>
> December: *daíkaímbaír
>
>
>
>
>
> The days of the week according to your information and the list of
Gerhard Köbler:
>
>
>
> Monday: ?
>
> Tuesday: *areinsdags, *arjausdags
>
> Wednesday: ?
>
> Thursday: *pintadags, *paíntedags, paraskaíwe
>
> Friday: *pareinsdags
>
> Saturday: sabbato
>
> Sunday: *fráujinsdags
>
>
>
>
>
> So for Monday and Wednesday we don't have any knowledge so far?
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards
>
> Manie
>
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: llama_nom
>   To: gothic-l at yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 6:47 AM
>   Subject: [gothic-l] Re: háils
>
>
>
>   Hails Manie!
>
>   I believe the Fagino Maria (Hail Mary) you quote is a modern
>   reconstruction, based on Luk:1:28 "jah galeithands inn sa aggilus
du
>   izai qath: fagino, anstai audahafta, frauja mith thus; thiuthido
thu
>   in qinom."  And I would guess that the lack of dots above the
capital
>   I of Iesus is just a product of the computer font used to
transcribe
>   the Gothic letters.  That is to say, perhaps the upper case
>   equivalent of ï wasn't available in this particular font, or else
was
>   felt unnecessary for the sake of clarity since a capital letter
will
>   always be found at the start of a word anyway.
>
>   The Gothic calender gives in addition to Naubaimbair, the
>   synonymous "fruma jiuleis" (the first Jiuleis), this being the
native
>   Germanic name.  Judging by the Old English calendar, we can guess
>   that the following month would have been "sa anthar jiuleis".
More
>   speculatively, one could reconstruct Gothic forms for the other
>   months according to the Old English names...
>
>   Regarding the days of the week, the Bible contains Sabbato
(Saturday,
>   that is The Sabbath).  Also in the Bible, are "fruma sabbato"
which
>   is used at Mk 15,42 for "Sabbath eve" = "the day before the
Sabbath",
>   but at Mk 16,9 it signifies "the day after the Sabbath".
>
>   Intriguingly, there exist in some southern German speaking
regions
>   alternate names for some weekdays, which seem to show the
influence
>   of the Greek day names.  It is possible that these were taken
into
>   German through Gothic.  Here is a list of the reconstructed
Gothic
>   forms mentioned in Gerhard Koebler's "Gotisches Woerterbuch":
>
>   *areinsdags - Tuesday
>   *pintadags - Thursday
>   *pareinsdags - Friday
>
>   I have read that there is a Swiss name for Sunday: Frontag.  This
>   one's not mentioned in Koebler's dictionary.  I wonder if it
could
>   have been inspired by a Gothic *fraujinsdags?  (Greek: hee
kuriakee).
>
>   Llama Nom
>
>
>   --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "Manie Lombard"
<manielombard at c...>
>   wrote:
>   > Hails!
>   >
>   > My name is Manie Lombard. I'm 41, married, have two children
and
>   live in Viena, Austria. I'm generally interested in languages.
The
>   reason why I joined this group is, because I've got some
questions.
>   >
>   > Are the gothic names of the week days known, and if yes, what
are
>   they called? Are the names of the months known,
besides "Naubaimbair"
>   in your "Kalender.int.txt"?
>   >
>   > In gothic, you have two "i"s.
>   > In J. Wright's grammar it says: "The Gothic character ï was
used at
>   the begining of a word and medially after a vowel not belonging
to
>   the same syllable" Now I find in the Gothic "Hail Mary":
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > Fagino Maria,
>   > anstai audahafta,
>   > frauja miþ þus;
>   > þiuþido þu ïn qinom,
>   > þiuþido akran
>   > qeiþaus þeinis, Iesus.
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > Is the "I" of Iesus intentionally an I without two dots? And if
so,
>   why?
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > Regards
>   >
>   > Manie
>   >
>   >
>   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
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