[gothic-l] Re: Spanish surnames

[faltin2001]

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, OSCAR HERRERA <duke.co at s...> wrote:
> oscargoth- dirk you know little of the goths.


Dirk:
We all know little about the Goths, because only little is known 
about the Goths in general, but I have read all (or most) of the 
literature on the Goths. 





Oscar:
how spanish was invoked as a language ,well lets say we dont know.


Dirk:
We don't? Well is Spanish not a Romanic language?




Oscar:
it was spoken there before the romans arrived.




Dirk:
I doubt that this is correct to be honest. The Roman period in Spain 
is very important and Spanish, as a romanic language is a direct 
result.





Oscar:
the goths on the other hand were a well adapting germanic tribe and 
were very loyal to their own language 




Dirk:
That is wrong I am afraid. They did keep their Germanic names, thus 
adhereing to Germanic namining practices which they shared also with 
other Germanic groups, but especially the Visigoths lost their 
Germanic language at an early time. The Visigoths arrive in Spain at 
the end of the 5th century and then in larger numbers after the 
catastrophic defeat inflicted by the Francs in 507AD. To what extend 
they still spoke Gothic at that time is uncertain, but by the middle 
of the 6th century a source distinguishes them as the Roman Goths to 
denote the fact that they had mostly become Latin speakers. 






Oscar:
as shown by many gothic kings that ruled in spain prior to the moors 
invasion. their names were germanic,such as 
sisabut,sigeric,wallia,theudigiesel and on


Dirk:
Yes, Germanic naming practice was conservative and could not easily 
be transfered to Latin names. 



Oscar:
....history also said the goths drove the moors out..... 



Dirk:
The Visigoths lost most of Spain and certainly their kingdom in Spain 
to the Moors. They did not drive them out. The Moslems were finally 
driven out by Spaniards not Goths centuries later. 






Oscar:
so, why did these people give up their language and change spanish to 
its present pronunciation instead of invoking the gothic language and 
using a liitle spanish in it. 


Dirk:
Because they were a small minority that was enitrely dependent on a 
Roman/Latin civil and clerical administration. 





Oscar:
in conclusion gothic is nice to speak and i think the germanic 
peoples of europe should be entitled to more than just a few germanic 
languages spoken in north europe...



Dirk:

that is an entirely different matter. You and all Spaniards can speak 
and revive as much Gothic as they like, but it does not change the 
true ethnic composition of Spain and it does not change the history 
of that country either. 

One of the best books on the Visigoths is "Adel, Kirche und Königtum 
im Westgotenreich" by Dietrich Claude. I strongly recommend this for 
all who are interested in discussing Visigothic Spain. 

Cheers
Dirk 






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