[gothic-l] Re: fairhwus + Greutingi + Gothic loans in Polish

[Francisc Czobor]

Hi!

What is more remarkable from my pint of view, in Czarnecki's article, 
is the attempt to derive the modern Polish place name Gdansk from 
a "weichselgothisch" (Vistula-Gothic)*gudiscandja or *gutiskandja. 
This proposed etymology falls under the cathegory of possible 
borrowings from Gothic ("mögliche Entlehnungsfälle"), thus more 
plausible than Grudziadz < *Ghraudingos.
This would be thus an attempt to locate the 
(legendary?) "Gothiscandza" of Jordanes that, according to his Getica 
(IV, 25), must have been somewhere on the southern shore of the 
Baltic Sea, where also the modern city of Gdansk is located.

Generally speaking about Czarnecki's article, excepting the place 
names, all the other Gothic (or, more generally, Germanic) loanwords 
in Polish are found also in other Slavic languages, being in fact 
borrowings from Gothic or some other old Germanic dialect into Common 
Slavic. Very interesting the attempt to identify three layers of 
Gothic loanwords into Polish (in fact, Slavic):
1. Early Gothic ("frühgotische") or Vistula-Gothic 
("weichselgotische"), approx. AD 0-200
2. Proper Gothic ("eigentliche gotische") or Steppe Gothic 
("steppengotische"), approx. AD 200-400
3. Late Gothic ("spätgotische") or Balkan-Gothic ("balkangotische"), 
aprrox. AD 400-600.
I don't understand why just the "Steppe Gothic" (spoken by the Goths 
in the steppes at the Black Sea between approx. 200-400 AD) is 
considered to be "Proper Gothic". Probably because of the fact that 
in the Balkans the Gothic language begun to be submitted to Romanic 
influence. In any case, this "Late Gothic" was spoken not only in the 
Balkans (apparently until the 9th or 10th century in some locations), 
but for sure also in the Ostrogothic Italy (where the extant copies 
of the Codex Argenteus and Skeireins were made and where the deeds of 
Arezzo and Naples were issued) and, for some time, also in the 
Visigothic Spain (although I don't know of much concrete evidence for 
the use of the Gothic language there; but we have evidence for its 
use in the Alano-Vandalic North Africa!).

Francisc



--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <penterakt at f...> wrote:
> 
> Hi all!
> 
> And the OE cognate of FAIRHWUS is FEORH 'life'.  Looking up 
> _fairguni_ just now on Google, I came across this article on the 
> Gothic contribution to Polish:
> 
> www.fh.ug.gda.pl/images/Czarnecki.pdf
> 
> In particular I noticed the following comment on a Polish place 
name 
> sometimes said to derive from the tribal name recorded in Latin as 
> GREUTINGI.  Czarnecki says here that the place name is of Slavonic 
> rather than East Germanic origin - which means it can't be used as 
> evidence that this tribe was an old grouping going back to Poland.
> 
> 10.1.1.7. Grudzi¹dz – eine Ortschaft Solch eine Form geht nicht auf 
> die Bezeichnung eines ostgerm. (got.) Stammes *Ghraudingos (> 
ostgot. 
> Grutungi) zurück, sondern, wie die ältere Form Grudzieniec zeigt, 
ist 
> sie slawischer Herkunft. Vgl. Kiparsky (1934: 39, 166), Stender-
> Petersen (1927: 520)
> 
> 
> Llama Nom
> 




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