[gothic-l] Re: Gothic Language (Romans 1-3 Reconstruction)

Tue Oct 19 09:17:40 UTC 2004

Hails Llama

> > -Bruk was apparently an attempt to match Go. translations of 
> > craomai verbs (related to crhsin) "need, use" more than 
"use, 
> > custom".  In this sense,  andawizn also is fitting.
> 
> Is that 'need' as in: "what is required by nature"?  But then the 
> same word is used for the 'unnatural' too.  ANDAWIZNS (=Gk. 
> opso^nion, Lat. stipendium, necessitas) I take to be 
something 
> like "what is necessary to live on: food/expenses/supplies".  I 
still 
> reckon SIDUS/BIUHTI might be closest.

I reconsider andawizn as imperfect to this use.
So now:

biu'hti - "Gewohnheit" custom, usage, practice: ethos, 
suneetheia, to eithismenon, to eioothos; consuetudo; eioothenai 
(biuhts wisan)

sidus - "Sitte, Gewohnheit" custom, usage, habit, conduct; ta 
eethee; institutio, mos

Here is the trion:
27  	and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural 
function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one 
another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving 
in their own persons the due penalty of their error.	 	

27 omoiwV te kai oi arseneV afenteV thn fusikhn crhsin thV 
qhleiaV exekauqhsan en th orexei autwn eiV allhlouV arseneV 
en arsesin thn aschmosunhn katergazomenoi kai thn 
antimisqian hn edei thV planhV autwn en eautoiV 
apolambanonteV	 	

xxvii. similiter autem et masculi relicto naturali usu feminae 
exarserunt in desideriis suis in invicem masculi in masculos 
turpitudinem operantes et mercedem quam oportuit erroris sui 
in semet ipsis recipientes
-

As you see, i thought the problem lay in the fact that  Gk. 'crhsin', 
Lat. 'usu' were not mentioned under sidus or biuhti.  Dutch has 
"gebruik", Norwegian "bruk", Icelandic "mökum"; Swedish 
"umgäng", Danish "omgang", Germ. "Brauch". German has the 
word "Sitte" of course, as well as Gewohnheit, which do not 
occur here, though do other places for different words (as noted 
in Koebler). If biuhti may be seen as a close relative in *spirit* to 
"omgang", "umgäng" (the NEGerm. choice), we have here in the 
Gothic an interesting dilemma.

On the other hand, the cognate to my tentative construction 
"bru'ks" (mA) in GW is found as bru'ks (i/jaA): brauchbar; useful, 
serviceable, usable: Gr. eukhreestos, sumferein (=bru'ks 
wisan), oofelimos. Lat. utilis.  Thus bru'ks is seen at least in 
respect to Greek and Latin as an adjectival from connected to 
the (eu)khrao- / usu- root idea. These two words, in noun form, 
have converging meanings in precisely this verse in question, 
i.e. Gk. khreesin, Latin usum.

It may therefore be possible here to suggest, at the risk of 
placing continuity and invention before the constricture of lack 
(and the repitition and stiff fit that go therewith), *bruki (nJA), or *
bru'ks (fI), with possible ga- prefix, as a usable relative of the 
already existing Gothic family of cognates to Germ. Brauch, 
gebrauchen; Nor. bruk, bruke.viz. bru'ks, brukjan--as filling a role 
which it is unnecessary to think should be filled by any other 
word only nearly fitting the need at hand--or should we prefer the 
bird in the hand to the two in the bush, so to speak? i.e. the less 
perfectly fitting thing that exists rather than the perfect fit which is 
invented but for which this is so much compelling evidence?

> 
> > 6. in flaimei sijufl jah jus haitainai Iesuis Xristaus
> 
> haitanai (...appologies if I already mentioned it, I can't 
remember)

you didn't. thanks. :)

> 
> 
> 
> > In 1:16 the use of "faurthis"
> 
> Seems reasonable to me.  = prooton, as in Mt 5,24, and your 
Rom 1,8.

in my greek version this word has brackets, which indicates a 
question to me, or option? this si the greek west.-hort found on 
the unbound.biola site.

> 
> > 21. ...riqizidedun unwita hairtona seina.
> 
> Isn't eskotisthee passive?  KJB has "and their foolish heart 
was 
> darkened" = eskotisthee hee asunetos autoon kardia.  I'm 
afraid my 
> ignorance of Greek will come into play here.  What is this 
> literally?  Does asunetos agree with kardia?  Kardia is 
singular, 
> isn't it?  Is this an example of an odd word order in the Greek 
being 
> used to rhetorical effect?  How about: riqizith warth hairto ize 
> thata unwito (thata unwito hairto ize, thata unwito ize hairto, 
> unwito hairto ize) – or some variation on that?  I'll have a look 
for 
> anything that might be comparable (demonstrative + 
possessive) in the 
> Skeireins some time.  Maybe all of them are possible...  Oh, 
> according to Wright "the reflexive pronoun always relates to the 
> subject of its own sentence" – so maybe ize rather than sein, if 
the 
> subject changes to "heart" here.

the subject is heart, asunetos is feminine nom. singular 
agreeing with kardia. i think my construction is supposed to be a 
mediopassive i.e. they darkened themselves the hearts = their 
heart was darkened. probably better to go with passive, and 
singular heart as a literal rendering, with ize as the subject is 
changed to heart as of course you prudently suggest.

> gawairthi,
> Llama Nom (jah wenja ei gamuneis thammei ufarmunodes!)

thank you again Llama.

-Matthaius

ufta jah unweniggo mis silbin ist Ufarmaudei in husa 
meinamma gasts, jah swistar mifl sis Airzei haitana.

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