Etymology Swedish 'groda' "frog"

Fri Dec 16 02:06:57 UTC 2005

Hi Ingemar,

There is a correspondence between Irish /f/, Welsh /gw/ and 
Germanic /w/, for example: OHG wâr, Ir. fír, Welsh gwir "true"; Got. 
woþs "mad", Ir. fáith "prophet", W gwawd "poem", Lat. 
vates "inspired poet".  I guess that's where the thought of a Celtic 
connection came from?

I'm not aware of any change within Germanic that would account for 
such a variation initially.  Hellquist's etymological dictionary, 
suggests that 'groda', like many variants in different languages, 
can't be explained simply by regular sound changes.  The suggestion 
is that it was a nickname (familiar/hipocoristic form), or euphemism 
(sometimes called a 'noa-name', to avoid using the creature's true 
name if that was taboo).  The name may once have been 'gro' in 
Swedish, as Norwegian 'gro' "toad", but influenced by Middle Low 
German 'krode' (=New High German kröte "toad").  For another 
possible noa-name, and a bit on the psychology of this practice, see 
VARG.

http://runeberg.org/svetym/0290.html
http://runeberg.org/svetym/

Likewise the Svenska Akademiens ordbok: "jfr nor. gro, padda, av 
okänt urspr. Formen groda torde ha uppkommit av gro gm påvärkan av 
mnt. krode; jfr ä. d. grode, padda".

http://g3.spraakdata.gu.se/saob/

Here's what the Oxford English Dictionary says about "FROG", no 
mention of forms with initial /g/.

_________________________________________________________________

"OE. frogga wk. masc.; a hypocoristic formation (peculiar to Eng.), 
from the root contained in the various Teut. synonyms, of which 
there are three different types: (1) OE. frox, (*frosc). forsc str. 
masc. (see FROSH) = Du. vorsch, OHG. forsk (MHG. vorsch, mod.G. 
frosch), ON. frosk-r: OTeut. *frosko-z; (2) ME. frude, FROUD, frog 
or toad, related by ablaut to ON. frauðr, OSw. pl. frødhir (Da. 
frö); cf. OF. froit, frot toad, which is perh. of Scandinavian 
origin; (3) ON. frauke, whence perh. the ME. froke, given among the 
forms of the present word. 

"The etymological relation between the various Teut. words involves 
some unsolved difficulties. Some scholars, on the ground of OE. 
frogga, and ON. frauke, assume a root ending in a guttural, and 
explain OTeut. *frosko- as = *froh-sko-. This does not account for 
the ME. frude, ON. frauð-r, and hence it has been suggested that the 
common root of all the words is frud- (frod-), fraud-, frd-; OTeut. 
frud- + suffix -ko- would by phonetic law become *frosko-; the ON. 
frauke appears to be for *frauke. With regard to OE. frogga it may 
be remarked that the ending -gga occurs in several other names of 
animals: cf. stagga, docga, wicga. It is possible that frogga may 
owe its form to the analogy of other animal names with this 
termination."
_____________________________________________________________

guard : ward.  Germanic words borrowed into the early Romance 
languages typically represent Germanic initial /w/ with /g/.  In 
this case, 'ward' is the native English form, 'guard' a loanword 
from French, into which it came from continental German.  English 
contains a few doublets, pairs of words of the same origin, but 
different form, one taken from Norman French which had initial /w/, 
another from /g/ from central French dialect, e.g. warranty, 
guarantee.

Llama Nom

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "Ingemar Nordgren" <ingemar at n...> 
wrote:
>
> Hi guys,
> 
> This question is forwarded from another list and I try to relate 
the
> basic question including my commentaries. Would appreciate an 
answer
> from one of our many linguists. The basics is in capital letters.
> 
> We know some words with originally the same root in some languages
> start with 'g' and in other with 'v'like for instance Sw. groda, 
Engl.
> frog. As far as I know it is connected with the languageshift from
> ProtoGmc to the later more dialectal Germanic. WHICH IS THE GENERAL
> LAW GOVERNING THIS CHANGE? The questioner also is pondering the
> possibility that Germanic and Celtic both could be involved in the
> change but personally I am sceptical to that. Below is the original
> question for those who can read Swedish.
> 
> Best
> Ingemar
> 
>  Ni vet att vissa ord med ursprungligen samma rot börjar i  några
> språk på g i
> andra på v
> 
> t.ex,   groda / frog
>           garder / ward
> 
> Denna konsonatväxling ger upphov till en spekulation och det finns 
en
> gemensam
> rot till ordet. Är det germanskt kontra keltiskt?
> 
> votan resp. got
> 
> vilken är den språklag som förklarar konsonatväxlingen,
> var och när verkade den?.
> 
> Är det någon vet hur det hänget ihop?
> 
> Hälsningar
> Håkan L L
>

------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> 
Know an art & music fan? Make a donation in their honor this holiday season!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/.6dcNC/.VHMAA/Zx0JAA/wWMplB/TM
--------------------------------------------------------------------~-> 

You are a member of the Gothic-L list.  To unsubscribe, send a blank email to <gothic-l-unsubscribe at egroups.com>. 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    gothic-l-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/