[gothic-l] faur/faura (was: A new word, Gothic birds)

Fri Jan 14 07:09:48 UTC 2005

Sijaits hailai Fredrik jas-Sigi!

Do you think there might be some interchangeability though?  With 
similar meaning, "governor": faura-maþleis, but also faur-stasseis.  
Also note: faura-hah, faur-hah -- both meaning curtain.

Looking at prefixes specifically, it seems FAURA- is in the majority 
where the meaning is "superior" or simply "being in front of" (in 
time of space), both in nouns and verbs.  So on balence, yes I'd 
guess *faura-sitands is more likely.  Unless we 
interpret "president" idealistically as someone who sits in 
government "on our behalf"!  ...in which case: faur-sitands? (cf. 
faurbauhts "redemption" (literally "a buying for").  But as you say, 
I think the etymology points more to sitting in front of, or in a 
position superior to the meeting.

Apart from the meanings Sigi has mentioned, FAUR- is used with verbs 
of motion to indicate "past" or going "by" or overtaking and 
going "on ahead (of)", e.g. faurrinnan, faur(bi)sniwan, bi þragjan 
faur (but exceptionally faura-qiman "come before").  Þai faur-
gaggandans "those passing by"; þai faura-standandans "the 
bystanders, those standing in front of him" (and faurastandands also 
= "one who presides, someone in authority").

Perhaps this is an example of contingent/contextual orientation, 
since the direction of movement isn't intrinsic to the person moving-
-except in the case of time, where FAURA often = "(statically) 
before, in advance", e.g. fauragahugjan, fauraqiþan, fauragaredan, 
fauragamanwjan (but faurdomeins).  But FAUR "ago, gone by", e.g. 
faur fidwortaihun jera "14 years ago".

As prefix FAUR is also with verbs of blocking, forbidding, 
preventing: faurbiudan, faurdammjan, faurmuljan, faurwaipjan.

About SAT FAUR WIG: I wondered if the choice of preposition might be 
due to the idea of motion, or an extension of this?  The blind man 
is seen in passing by people as they go by, so the preposition 
appropriate to passing by is used.  But maybe Sigi's idea is 
better...  L 6,17 has an example where FAUR MAREIN is definitely 
static.  In English things can be situated "along the coast", e.g. 
roads, regions; or can "move along" the coast, e.g. people, etc.  
Similarly in (Old) Icelandic, I think the preposition með can 
be "along" a border/coastline/edge, with or without movement.

Here's my ongoing list of representative examples:

FAUR +acc.
(for the sake of; moving past, overtaking, going on ahead; ago, gone 
by; beside)

for the sake of.......gasaljands sik faur uns 'giving himself for 
uns' Sk 1,a

beside................sat faur wig 'he sat by the wayside' Mk - 10,46

past, in front of.....ni bisniwam faur þans anaslepandans 'we shall 
not go on ahead in front of those who fall asleep' - 1Thess 4,15

ago...................wait mannan in Xristau faur .id. jera 'I know 
a man in Christ [who] 14 years ago...' 2Cor 12,2

FAURA +dat.
(hide/escape/save/protect from; being before in time; being in front 
of in space)

from..........gafalh sik faura im 'he hid from them' - J 12,36; 
gaþlauh faura im 'he ran away from them' - Mk 14,52; ei bairgais im 
faura þamma unseljin `that you protect them from the evil one' - J 
17,15

before........fauramaþljos þaiei weisun faura mis 'the rulers who 
came before me' Neh 5,15

in front of...alla gakunnun faura imma 'all bowed down before him' - 
1Cor 15,28

I guess by advantage/disadvantage you're referring to this "save 
from" versus "do something for" distinction?  I'd be very interested 
to hear more about the theory of this, or if you have any other 
major meanings I've missed.

Llama Nom

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "Sigi Vandewinkel" 
<sigivandewinkel at y...> wrote:
> 
> Hi Fredrik, 
> 
> I might have the answer to your question: 
> 
> > About the word for president 1223 had faursitands, and i thought 
of 
> > faurasitands. Is faur better than faura in this case?
> 
> There is some explaining to it, though, so I could perhaps save you
> some time and present you with the conclusion right away: I think 
it
> should be "faurasitands". 
> 
> And now for why I think so. 
> 
> "Faur" and "Faura" are quite similar in meaning, but there is a 
simple
> feature keeping them strictly apart. "Faura" denotes the area in 
front
> of an intrinsically oriented entity, and "faur" the area in front 
of
> an entity that receives an orientation in context.  Intrinsically
> oriented entities are people, animals, chairs, cars, and so on, 
that
> have one particular side that is their inherent front. They can be
> looked at from various viewpoints, but the front side stays the 
same.
> Contextually oriented entities are seas, roads, cardboard boxes,
> tables, and so on: they can be assigned a different front side
> depending on their position or the viewpoint that you're taking. (A
> simple example: the road lying before me is what is behind the 
driver
> coming from the other side.) 
> 
> In Gothic this difference is reflected in the case required by each
> preposition: "faura" requires the dative; "faur" the accusative. 
> 
>    1) jah standandei faura fotum is aftaro greitandei, 
>    dugann natjan fotuns is tagram jah skufta haubidis seinis 
>    biswarb jah kukida fotum is jah gasalboda þamma balsana 
>    (Lk 7:38). 
>    And standing in front of his feet she wept, and she began 
>    to wash his feet with tears and dried them with the hairs 
>    on her head and kissed his feet and balmed them with 
>    balm.
> 
> The sinful woman is standing "faura" Jesus' feet (dative) because 
feet
> have an intrinsic front side. In Wulfila's Bible spatial "faura" 
only
> occurs with people (or metonymical expressions referring to people,
> such as "feet"). 
> 
>    2) jah galaiþ aftra faur marein, jah all manageins 
>    iddjedun du imma, jah laisida ins (Mk 2:13).
>    And He went back in front of the sea (to this side of the 
>    sea), and all the multitudes went towards Him, and He 
>    taught them. 
> 
> "Faur" here can be best translated as "this side of" -- 
compare "jah
> galaiþ hindar marein" - He went 'behind' the sea, i.e. to the other
> side of the sea. The sea does not have an intrinsic front: that's 
just
> the side that happens to be closest to you. Incidentally, you 
cannot
> tell whether "marein" is an accusative or a dative case (since 
they're
> the same), but this example is perhaps clearer: 
> 
>    3) warþ þan, miþþanei nehva was is Iaireikon, blinda sums 
>    sat faur wig du aihtron. (Lk 18:35). 
>    It now happened that, while He was near Jericho, some 
>    blind guy sat begging on this side of the road. 
> 
> A road does not have an intrinsic front or back area: the "faur 
wig"
> (accusative) happens to be that side closest to Jesus -- His side 
of
> the road. 
> 
> The abstract uses of "faura/faur" (disadvantage/advantage; because
> of/for the sake of) show interesting correlates of this difference,
> but I'll save that for some other post. Suffice to say that a
> president, a chairperson, or "faurasitands" originally means: the
> person that sits in front of a group of people to watch over the
> meeting. People have got an intrinsic front; and, 
therefore, "faura"
> should be used. 
> 
> Tata, 
> 
> Sigi

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