Using DNA to find Goths

[akoddsson]

Hi Michael.

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, Michael Erwin <merwin at ...> wrote:
>
> Aside from the name, what unites Gutland with Gutthiuda?

Well, not many historical sources about Goths and their origins 
survive, hence the controversies. However, the emmigrant Goths' 
historical connections with Gutland are confirmed by their common 
national name (gutthiuda, gutthiaud in later Gutlandic), as you 
mention, as well as the many linguistic similarities between the 
Gothic Wulfila wrote and the later Gutlandic language. The nordic 
languages (north germanic) are divided into two groups, normally 
called east and west Norse in English language puplications. The 
only exception is Gutlandic, which receives a classification that is 
separate from the other two main groups (Swedish-Gautish-Danish and 
Norwegian-Icelandic-Faroese), which are easily derivable from a 
common proto-type, often called Proto-Norse (North Germanic). The 
problem with Gutlandic is that it is not entirely derivable from 
this common proto-type, but only partially. The are phonological, 
declentional and vocabulary characteristics which suggest that the 
language was originally East Germanic, but that it was later taken 
up and incorporated into East Norse as a minority dialect at some 
point. More than likley, this would have had something to due with 
the Gutlanders numerical inferiority to the much more numerous 
Gautlanders (east and west), Swedes and Danes. Thus, a kind of 
linguistic approximation appears to have occured, whereby the older 
East Germanic language was gradually pigeonized into becoming more 
and more like it's neighbors, but without detroying all signs of its 
eastern origins. Tore mentioned that Gutland was a major trading 
center long before the Hansa-period. I quick search on Gutlandic 
archeaology confirms that he's right about this. This would likley 
have put centuries of pressure on the Gutlandic language to change 
and approximate its neighbors, given extensive trade contacts with 
their much more numerous North Germanic-speaking neighbors. Another 
thing which connects Gutland to the continental emmigrant Goths is 
the medieaval Gutnish Saga of the Gutlanders (called Gutasaga in Old 
Gutlandic), which recounts a vast emmigration from the island due to 
constant over-population/population pressure. The narrative is quite 
emphatic about this point, stating that lots were drawn by a 1/3-2/3 
departure rule, whereby those departing could take movable property, 
but obviously not land. How many times this happened, and how much 
other emigration from the island occured independently of it, is not 
documented, but some amount can be reasonable surmised, given only 
high birth-rates and that Gutland is an island of only limited size 
(this is much is confirmable by a map/atlas). This same saga relates 
that the departed entered a Greek-controlled area of the Byzantine 
empire, which is also what continental sources about Goths would 
seen to suggest (i.e. near the Black Sea/Romania). Lastly, it states 
that these continental Goths reportedly still spoke 'something of 
our language'. These point are all very interesting, especially as 
they are coming from a place literally called 'Land of the Goths', 
as opposed to Gauts, Saxons, '/Mark/Territory of the Danes', etc.. 
Also, the national name agrees with continental sources, contrasting 
with the neighboring parallel-construction Svithiaud, here spelled 
in Gutlandic). While no one is denying that Gothic groups once lived 
in areas of modern Poland, these groups are no longer available for 
DNA sampling. On the other land, the 'Land of the Goths' is, being 
the only place where such a sample could be produced, given that the 
modern population sampled is still representative of the older one. 
But that is a topic for Gutlandic genealogists, etc.. My personal 
guess is that the custom of the oldest son inheriting the land, 
which is known to have lasted into our modern times, puts us in a 
situation where the majority of adult Gutlandic males in lines of 
land-inheritance, or which can be documented to descend from this 
group though younger siblings, would show characteristics of the 
older Gothic male-population, given only that the island has been 
continually inhabited (it has) and that land was not sold, or only 
seldom sold, to foreigners. About this last point, Gutlandic laws 
treat non-Gutlanders as aliens and non-'citizens', which is quite 
natural given their age and province (this is confirmable by reading 
Gutlandic mideaval laws - about modern Gutlandic law, ask a someone 
specializing in it). This last part represents my personal hunch 
about what kinds of Gutlanders would be a good place to start any 
potential sample. 

> If we can agree on the Gothicness of Weilbark and Chernjakhov, we  
should begin there, 

The problem here is that these cultures are no longer living, and 
thus no comparative DNA sample could be extracted as no likely 
descendants could be identified. 

> and we should see what connections various Spanish, Italian, and 
various Balkan populations have with Romanian, Ukrainian and Polish 
ones,

I think I see what you are getting at, but imagine that such a 
comparison would be immeasurably time-consumming and complex; 
furthermore, what characteristics would we be looking for as 
specifically Gothic as opposed to to other possibilities? 

> as well as the mixed-origin population in  
> the original Gothic cultures, as far as physical remains are  
> available for such study.

Physical remain would indeed be a good place to start, at least if 
they can be ascertained to be Gothic as opposed to mixed-population 
remains. I think that the likly point of such a study would be to 
establish a sample that would be likely characteristic of Gothic DNA 
as opposed a general sample of european DNA. That would defeat the 
purpose, I think, and probably be very expensive. A project like the 
one discussed would need clearly defined purposes and parameters, as 
well as a budget. Isolating the characteristic DNA features of folk 
that are likely aboriginal to Gutland is much more cost-effective, 
as well as likely to produce a comparative sample with which other 
DNA could be compared with regards to the features which the experts 
conclude to be likely hallmarks of the original Gothic population.

Regards,
Konrad







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