Visigothic identity of Spain

Wed Nov 15 17:57:16 UTC 2006

Hails Ualarauans,

  Thank you for your comments! Specially the note about the probable Burgundian origin of the name Gundemarus I am really sorry that I can't find more comprehensive sources... I'm always very concerned about the sources' issue, but in this case I just preferred to present the info I had. Anyway, the Dictionary entry by the R.A.E. is trust worthy. I've been reading more about the origin of the "Guzmán" name and it seems that the origin is o.o.o. (of obscure origin); the main hypothesis seems to be the one I mentioned: Gothic origin, but with any further detail disputed.

  If you are interested in the names of the Visigothic kings in Spain (here we refer to them as simply "the Gothic Kings", "los Reyes Godos"), here you have the list (from http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lista_de_los_reyes_godos) with the Spanish names:

  Reyes Visigodos (Visigothic Kings)

  Fritigerno - 369-380 
Atanarico - ¿?-381 
Alarico I - 395-410 

  Reino arriano de Tolosa (Arian kingdom of Toulouse)
Ataúlfo - 410-415 
Sigérico - 415 
Walia - 415-418 
Teodorico I - 418-451 
Turismundo - 451-453 
Teodorico II - 453-466 
Eurico - 466-484 
Alarico II - 484-507 

  Reino arriano de Toledo (Arian kingdom of Toledo)
Gesaleico - 507-511 
Amalarico - 511-531, (reigned under regency of Teodorico the Great, during 15 years, 511-526.)
Teudis - 531-548 
Teudiselo - 548-549 
Agila I - 549-551 
Atanagildo - 551-567 
Liuva I - 567-572 
Leovigildo - 572-586 

  Reino católico de Toledo (Catholic kingdom of Toledo)
Recaredo - 586-601 
Liuva II - 601-603 
Witerico - 603-610 
Gundemaro - 610-612 
Sisebuto - 612-621 
Recaredo II - 621 
Suintila - 621-631 
Sisenando - 631-636 
Chintila - 636-639 
Tulga - 639-642 
Chindasvinto - 642-653 
Recesvinto - 653-672 
Wamba - 672-680 
Ervigio - 680-687 
Égica - 687-700 
Witiza - 700-710 
Rodrigo - 710-711 

  End of the Kingdom

Agila II - 710-714, reigned in Tarraconensis and Septimania. 
Ardón - 714-720, reigned in Septimania. 

  "Doubtful" Kings
  Iudila - 631-632, reigned over some southern parts of the kingdom.-
  Paulo - 673, reigned Septimania and some parts of  Tarraconensis.
  Suniefredo - 692-693 

  I'll try to get the version of the names in Old Spanish or Latin, which may be helpful for tracing an evolution of the names. In http://sirio.ua.es/libros/BEducacion/corona_gotica/index.htm there is a fac simil of a history about the Gothic Kings in 1887 (the names are very similar to the ones used presently).

About the words used in Spanish nowadays and of Gothic origin, there are quite a lot. The issue is well documented, and I can give you a list of the most common ones. If you don't mind, I will do that in a separate mail.

  Best regards!
  Rydwlf

ualarauans <ualarauans at yahoo.com> wrote:
  Hails, Rydwlf!

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, Rydwlf wrote:
>
> About "Guzmán" as a word, there is some interesting facts. In 
fact, it does
> exist in modern Spanish, as "guzmán", although it's not very used 
and may be
> regarded as an archaism. I can tell you that I didn't think it 
existed as a
> modern-use word, but I looked for it in the dictionary (just in 
case) and it
> turned out that it existed.
> 
> In the Dictionary from the Real Academia de la Lengua
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Academia_Espa%C3%B1ola), that 
is the
> organization responsible of regulating the Spanish language, and 
compiling
> updated dictionaries, the word "guzmán" appears as follows:
> 
> guzmán (De Alonso Pérez de Guzmán, llamado el Bueno, 1256-1309, 
caballero
> castellano a quien la tradición atribuye todas las virtudes 
caballerescas).
> 1. m. Noble que servía en la Armada real y en el Ejército de 
España con plaza
> de soldado, pero con distinción.
> 
> So the word really comes from a single individual, in this case 
Alonso Pérez
> de Guzmán, so the origin of the word goes back to the problem of 
identifying the
> origin of the surname.

This is very interesting. Thank you for your research! 

> About this, I have searched in etymology pages and the
> most accepted theory is that of a germanic origin, be it Gothic or 
German.
> 
> The generalized opinion in these pages is that the name comes 
from Gundemar,
> the king of the Visigoths in Hispania from 610 to 612. In the 
later half of the
> 16th Century, the Spanish economist Fr. Bartolomé Frías de 
Albornoz, who also
> did some etymology research at his time, proposed the 
name "Guzmán" as derived
> from the name of a British prince called "Gutiman". Gonzalo Argote 
de Molina
> (1549-1596), Spanish author, stated that in the 950, the count Don 
Nuño Muñoz
> founded in Roa de Duero (in the actual province of Burgos) and in 
the place of
> Guzmán, the original site of the House of Guzmán. Unfortunately, I 
don't have
> the exact sources for this quotes. It is a fact, though, that 
there exists a
> village called Guzmán in the province of Burgos.
> 
> About the statement of the Duchess of Medina-Sidonia in which 
she says that
> most probably the name was of moorish origin, that may be true, 
but in turn
> there turns out to be a theory in which the original name, still 
of Gothic
> origin, underwent some changes when under moorish rule. Thus, the 
families with
> that name who accepted to convert to Islam or live in moorish 
territory adapted
> the name and it changed from Gundemaro -> Guz de Maro -> Guz de 
Mar -> Guzmar ->
> Guzman. This assumes that in mozarabic language the "de" particle 
was taken as a
> generic mark and it disappeared.

Well, strictly spoken, Gundemarus is not Gothic, but Burgundian. 
Notice the voiced stop [d] and the long [a:] which features are 
clearly North-West Germanic, shared by Burgundian (as a result of a 
longer intercourse?) unlike other East Germanic languages. The royal 
Burgundian dynasty favored names with the Gund- element: their kings 
were called Gundacharius, Gundobadus, Gundeuechus et sim. Gothic 
*Gunþimêrs ("battle/famous") would probably appear as Gunthemirus in 
a Latinized source.

> It is a fact, anyway, that under the dictatorship of General 
Franco in the
> past century in Spain, there was an interest in exalting the 
Visigothic past of
> Spain and in linking the origin of the Spanish modern nobility to 
the Gothic
> one. Most people who are now from 50 to 60 years old had to 
memorize the list of
> all the Visigothic Kings when they were children at school. The 
term "list of
> the Gothic Kings" is used often in modern Spanish to refer to a 
dull and boring
> task.

How is it in Spanish? I know there are still some expressions in the 
language of today which go back to the times of, if not the 
Visigoths themselves, then the rise of the Spanish Gothicism. Could 
you please refer to some list of such phrases, or maybe post it 
here? Thanks in advance!

> Kind regards,
> 
> Rydwlf

Ualarauans

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