Was the word "kunig/kunigas/kunigur" a gothic word?

Sun Oct 1 10:24:51 UTC 2006

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "Francisc Czobor" <fericzobor at ...> 
wrote:
>
> Hi, Michael and Urba,
> 
> I apologize, it occured to me twice to push by error the "Send" 
> button before the message was ready...
> 
> What I write bellow is commonly accepted by linguists, and will 
take 
> the examples from two sources:
> - Koebler 
> 
(http://www.koeblergerhard.de/germanistischewoerterbuecher/gotischesw
o
> erterbuch/GOT-K.pdf), and
> - Online Etymology Dictionary 
(http://www.etymonline.com/index.php),
> both these sources reflecting the commonly accepted viewpoints.
> 
> The Gothic word _kuni_ "clan, tribe, race, generation" is cognate 
with
> other Germanic words like Old High German _chunni_, Old Norse 
_kyn_, 
> Old English _cyn_ > Modern English _kin_, the reconstructed Proto-
> Germanic (PG) form being *kunja-n, which comes from the Proto-Indo-
> European (PIE) root *g'en- (g' = palatal g) "to produce, to beget, 
to 
> be born", with the variants g'en@, g'ne:-, g'no:- etc. From the 
same 
> PIE root (and with the same Germanic sound shift, g' > k) are also 
> Germanic words derived otherwise, like Old English _ge-cynd_ > 
> English _kind_, _cynn_ "family", _cennan_ "beget, create", Old 
Norse 
> kundr "son", German _Kind_ "child", and the suffixes Gothic -
kunds, 
> Old High German -kund.
> Outside Germanic, other Indo-European examples from the same root 
are:
> - Latin: genus "race, stock, kind", gi-gne-re "to beget", gna-
sci "to 
> be born", gens (Genitive: gentis) "race, clan", etc.
> - Old Irish: ro-genar "I was born"
> - Welsh: geni "to be born"
> - Greek: genos "race, kind", gonos "birth, offspring, stock", gi-
gne-
> sthai "to become, happen"
> - Lithuanian: gentis "kinsmen"
> - Sanskrit: janati "begets, bears", janah "race", jatah (from PIE 
> *g'n-to-) "born"
> - Avestan: zi-zan-enti "they bear"
> Regarding the derivatin of "king" from "kin", I thing that there 
is 
> no doubt that this is the case, with the remark that the 
derivation 
> happened not in Modern English, but in PG: *kuni-(an) + *-ingaz = 
> *kuningaz.
> I don't know what connection could be between Gothic _kuni_ and 
> Lithuanian _kunas_ "body". In any case, the Gothic word for sure 
> doesn't come from Lithuanian: it is a common Germanic word coming 
> from PIE *g'en-, and the shift g' > k occured in Germanic, but not 
in 
> Baltic; in Lithuanian g' > "z^" ([zh], French "j") or sometimes > 
g, 
> like in the above example _gentis_, or in _gyvas_ "alive". Thus, 
kuni 
> and kunas are not even cognates at the Indo-European level.
> Only two alternatives remain:
> 1. chance resemblance, no connection;
> 2. Goth. kuni > Lith. kunas, but the meaning shift "clan, tribe" 
> > "body" doesn't look very plausible.
>  
> Francisc
> 
> --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "urba_kestutis" <urba_kestutis@> 
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, Michael Erwin <merwin@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I still think 'king' comes from 'kin' or  for the Gothic.
> > > 
> > > Of course one C-Gmc root can yield two Gothic words, as with 
mawi 
> > and  
> > > magatha, (or two English words, as with churn and quern, shirt 
> > and  
> > > skirt, ship and skiff, etc.) so that kindins and *kunig-- 
might 
> > come  
> > > from the same root. IIRC, mawi and magatha reflect changing 
word- 
> > > formation patterns within C-Gmc and Gothic, while shirt and 
> skirt  
> > > reflect internal borrowing among Germanic languages.
> > >
> > 
> > In lithuanian (neighbors of goths) there is the word kunas 
> > (pronounciatin is like eng. koonus) with a meaning BODY and  
> latvian 
> > language has the simmilarity. So, Gothic 'kuni' is possibly 
related 
> > to  lithuanian kunas, because 'kuni' has the meaning from the 
same 
> > body, too but in prussian there is no koonas but kermenis. How 
to 
> > explain this puzzle?
> >
>
Thanks Francis for very impressive linguistic information - was this 
one Yours or based on some article -I can't find it for example at 
Pokorny database. I've had the idea about 'kunig' origin 
like 'kuni'+'ing' too, but tried to guess on historical bases and 
used the idea about Greek hunter, but now I suppose that Your 
explanation gave more strong base. But lots of questions still are 
unclear. At historicall level it is possible now to discuss such 
idea - 5000-3000 BC with agriculture (ide) spreading 'kuni' reached 
German and Gothic lands, where later it was transformed 
into  'kunig'. Possibly, 200-400 AD during Gothic invasion into 
Europe the new style of ruling appeared together with King idea in 
Baltic, Slavic and the other lands. But why in Rome there appeared 
the rex but not king (rex is more millitar than king - I guess)? On 
the other hand, the Greek cultural linguistic influence was much 
more stronger than Gothic invasion into Europa and Greek hunter 
could give some influencies too.  All these questions must be 
considered Nostratic ideas too, supposing 'kn' and 'kng' to be 
backbone, letting wovels to change someway. This gives the great 
PUZZLE about the origin and chronology of dog - canis - hunter, 
animal and man body - 'kunas' (lithuanian), 'kiaune' (lith) -marten; 
tribe 'kuni' - hunting together or/and born from the same body; the 
ruler of the tribe who was the best hunter for some time - Kunig-
king...  So, if we want to obtain clear understanding about 
Gothic 'kunig' origin we must solve this semantic linguistic 
historical problem. Chronological problems are most complicated and 
some changes could reach and  appear at glacial or even preglacial 
time! 

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