Visigothic identity of Spain

[michelsauvant]

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "ualarauans" <ualarauans at ...> wrote:
>
This seems probable. I'm afraid to mistake, but I heard that Bosnian 
> Muslims are in fact descendants of medieval Serbian Bogomils, 
> another Manichaean-like group, which had been constantly 
persecuted 
> by both Catholic and Orthodox, until, when the Ottomans came, they 
> gladly adopted Islam as the only acceptable alternative to the 
> Christian denominations which had become quite odious in their 
eyes 
> after centuries of mutual hostility and bloodshed. Something 
similar 
> may have had place in Spain with Arian survivors, and I would 
> sympathize with Tom MacMaster's idea of many Visigothic 
descendants 
> finding themselves south of the Christian-Islamic front in Spain. 
> Still, Dirk is perhaps right when he says that most Visigoths were 
> already Catholic to the time of king Rodrigo. As they probably 
were 
> highly Hispanicized too, it would be difficult to sort them out of 
> the mass of other converts from Christianity to Islam. Family 
> traditions can prove not always correct, taking into account the 
> prestige of "hacerse de los Godos".
> 
> > OTOH, in the 4th century, the religious divisions crosscut ethno-
> > cultural divisions. Really crosscut, with Suebian practitioners 
of
> > Egyptian mystery cults...
> 
> Ualarauans
>

Hello,

I red also that some cathars were refugied among the Bosnian, 
because they were prosecuted in South of France (13th century).

I red also that catharism in South of France started from a 
religious group living in Bulgaria around the 10th century.

I red also that the last parts of Visigothic kingdom still arian 
during the 7th, 8 th century was the Septimanie and the country 
around Barcelona. Even during muslim reign they was an arian 
visigothic king in Septimania.
And the lords living there where often battle against the catholic 
power in Toledo. N.B. The Catalans, since that time, followed these 
tradition until now against Madrid, even if the religion is not the 
cause of their opposition since centuries. 

The heart of cathar country ( where the cathar castles are stil 
there) is geographicly a part of the Visigothic Septimania.

During the 9th century, the emperor Carolus Magnus forced people 
living there to become catholics. I assume that a part of them 
became cathars because of the arian tradition to be opposed to Roma 
(of course they were heretics for Roma).

My conclusion is the likely continuity between arian Visigothics, 
and some bosnians Ancestors through cathar people, with a common 
opposition to Roma. 

Michel  





You are a member of the Gothic-L list.  To unsubscribe, send a blank email to <gothic-l-unsubscribe at egroups.com>. 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/

<*> Your email settings:
    Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gothic-l/join
    (Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
    mailto:gothic-l-digest at yahoogroups.com 
    mailto:gothic-l-fullfeatured at yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    gothic-l-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/