Was the word "kunig/kunigas/kunigur" a gothic word?

[Ingemar Nordgren]

Hi Michel,

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "michelsauvant" <michelsauvant at ...>
wrote:

> 1. If  I understand you well, you support my assumption :
> - If I consider that Canigo is a normal mutation after 460 years 
> (around 415-875) of the name  "Kunig hauh" or "Kunighauh" (or 
> something with a spelling not very far from Kunig), you have some 
> reasons to think that this expression was a possible gothic 
> expression used by Visigoths around 415.
> - And for you the meaning is "King's height", and never "noble 
> height", 

Yes, if the ground word is 'kuningaz', which is Protogermanic for king
, it must be related to the king and not the nobility generally. 

 
> 2. I found that the last Þiuðans, you mentioned in your mail, was 
> Ermanarich, dead in 370.

Yes, I know he is called þiuðans in Getica but that is a discussed
matter. I for  one, as well as e.g. Wolfram, regard him just as a
reiks. The earlier mentioned 'Ostrogotha'might have been a þiuðans but
in any case he seems to have ended up as reiks of only the Ostrogoths.
That is as well discussed. I treat all this, as well as the
'kindins'-question, in my dissertation which is available on Amazon as
'The Well Spring of the Goths', Lincoln, New York, Shanghai 2004.
 
> So, if I understand well,  a king like Alaric, living after this 
> date, was named "rex" (written reiks in reconstituted gothic) only 
> by Romans; and he could have been "kunig" (or something near this 
> word) in the normal gothic vocabulary . But you are not sure that 
> this word "kunig" was used at that time.

Wether they used the word 'kuningaz´ or similar in practice, and the
writing 'reiks' is only a translation by Wulfila of 'rex', is dubious.
Sure the old 'kuningaz' was probably not forgotten but I think the
kings, at least in the later Ostrogothic and Visigothic realms, could
have used 'reiks',in any case officially they wrote 'rex' on coins et
c., for the sake of communication with the Roman world, but probably
the old word for kings, 'kuningaz'or a related word, should have been
in use among the people. We have no help of Wulfila or the Classical
authors in this matter and hence I do not know. There are some other
MSS but I have not read them that thoroughly.

> Note:  Alaric married himself in Narbonna (year 412). Narbonne is at 
> 70 kms North of Canigo. And we can see the Canigo from the hills 
> around Narbonna. And the Visigoths arriving directly on boats at 
> Collioure (Cautioliberis at that time) could see from the sea and 
> from the port the magnificent landscape with the Canigo in the 
> middle. The same I can see from my house near Collioure.

I know Narbonne and remember it with joy and pleasure.It is a
wonderful and inspiring town. There is among else an exellent
lapidarium in an old former church, which I visited when I was working
with research of Visigothic stone art in Southern France, Spain and
Portugal in cooperation with the university of Léon. It is  as well
the mouth of Canal Midi. From there I also visited Carcassone by rail. 

> 3. You presented me two other words "kindins" and "kinsman". For me 
> they can't have a relation with the name Canigo. Are they gothic or 
> later words for "kuni
"

No, they are directly related to just 'kindins' which is a nameform
that appear rather Nordic when comparing with other 'kind'-areas in
the sense of 'family-areas' - in a way related to 'clan'. 'Kindins' is
a Gothic word however.

The different 'kuni' are generally interpreted as 'clans' even if I
think this is not exactly the meaning- the Germans have better names
for this - but close enough. I assume the kuni-members originally came
from the same origin-area under the tribal chief who ruled as the
leading kinsman, family man. Every kunja had their own religious
symbols and they had an ancestor cult as well and the reiks/kuningaz
also was religious leader in that very limited sense. Since the 'kuni'
were kept together by the 'kindins' I regard him as 'kinsman', family
man' and not as 'judge', that he was called by the Romans. In that way
there is a probable real connection with 'kind' and 'kuni' but I dare
not say it is linguistically correct.

> 4.  I think suddenly that "Canigo" could be a mutation of the 
> expression "Kuni hauh". The guttural first "h" could have been mute 
> in a "g" after 460 years. In this case the meaning of Canigo would 
> be "Height of (our) kin". Do you think  it's  a name for a 
> mountain!! 

It is as well possible, indeed. I live at the foot of just such a
mountain called 'Kinnekulle', older 'Kindakull', that is by most
researchers understood as just 'the Kin Hill', the home of a tribe
based on broad family connections.''Kin' is more exactly 'ätt/aett' in
Swedish and hence it literally means 'Aettekullen'. Kulle' is
literally a natural lesser height, but this is indeed a mountain. If,
as I wrote above, 'kuni' in Gothic is the same as 'kind' in Nordic,
which 'kindins' originally suggest, you could very well see it as the
'kin mountain, family/clan mountain´,'the kuni or kunja mountain'-it
makes sense as well. Hopingly you are a better linguist than me who am
just an historian.

>    
> 5. Your answer shows me that some gothic words are not in the gothic 
> glossaries I was able to read on the web (vocabulary coming from the 
> Bible translated around year 350, before the end of  Þiuðans reign). 
> Do you know a more completed gothic glossary we can read on the web, 
> with all the words you presented me?

There are a number of glossaries that are just recently shown in
Gothic list with links in a message from David Salo. I suggest you
search for messages from him or just generally seek the net for his
name. Still remember that 'kind'-(Not English 'friendly' but
pronounced with 'i' as in 'spirit'!)- is not existant in known Gothic
but only 'kindins'. I also doubt that 'kuningaz' stands there, at
least not in Streitbergers Gotische Elementarbuch, since all wordlists
are based on Wulfila and he consquently uses reiks or the Greek or
Latin eqivalents and he often uses as well 'þiuðans' both for 
'reiks','emperor', 'kindins' and 'God'. Kuningaz is Protogermanic.

Bonne chance!
Ingemar







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