Fwd: Eine Kleine Gotenmusik

[llama_nom]

Good points, Thiudans.  Thinks: "One small Gothic song for a man, one
giant Gothic leap for mankind."  Regarding the word order, there would
probably be some freedom.  There are a few instances of numbers placed
before the noun they modify in the Bible, where the two words
correspond to a single word of Greek.  But then there is the rule that
 numerals 4-19 are declined for dative and genitive only when they
occur after the noun, which suggests the both orders were possible in
theory in native Gothic.  Perhaps, on that basis, we can guess that
the order numeral first was least emphatic.  Other strong adjective
and genitive modifiers tend to follow the noun they modify in those
very few instances in the Bible where Greek influence on word order
can be discounted (but weak adjectives tend to come first).  The
Skeireins shows more freedom in this respect, but with a tendency to
place partitive genitives after.  In the Bible, in those (independent)
instances where the genitive is placed before the noun or adjective it
modifies, the two words can be seen as being in a closer relationship
that otherwise, i.e. having the nature of a compound, compare: witodis
laus : witoda-laus (I Cor 9:21), both = ANOMOS "without law." 
According to Zoega's Old Icelandic Dictionary, "if put after the noun,
[Old Icelandic] 'einn' generally denotes 'only', 'but'".  I don't know
if there's any evidence one way or the other as to whether Gothic had
such a tendency too.  So, apologies to Michael for my misguided
criticism!  That leaves us with possibilities such as:

(ains)
........gutane (cf. Pietroassa inscription)
........gut-   (cf. Calendar)
.................saggws
...........................smals
...........................leitils

LN


--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "thiudans" <thiudans at ...> wrote:
>
> Little song I think should not use a partitive genitive. "Little
> music" might, because it suggests a part of a larger collective whole,
> like little yeast etc., in the same way we say in English "a little
> (bit of)..." One little song, emphasizing the number via 'ain-' might
> act as a deprecative.
> 
> -Th.
> 
> --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "llama_nom" <600cell@> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > 
> > First, congratulations Arthur on your latest compositions!  Waila
> > waurhteis!  Some powerful and poignant poetry there.
> > 
> > 
> > --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, Michael Erwin <merwin@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I suppose the Gothic thread-name would be "Ains leitils *Gutsaggws"
> > > 
> > > or "Ains smals Gutisks saggws"
> > > 
> > > or a combination thereof?
> > 
> > 
> > Or maybe 'leitil Gutane saggwis' (compare I Cor 5:6, I Tim 5:23), with
> > a partitive genitive.  Like the other early Germanic languages, Gothic
> > mostly does without an indefinite article in the singular...
> > 
> > leitil beistis
> > "a little yeast"
> > 
> > weinis leitil brukjais
> > "use a little wine"
> > 
> > jah was jainar manna gaþaursana habands handu.
> > "and there was yonder a man having a withered hand"
> > 
> > unte manna hardus is
> > "for thou art a hard man"
> > 
> > 
> > > GBRP / Naihaimias & James 3:6 [was just] Re: James 3:6
> > > 
> > > Hails!
> > > 
> > > Are there any good reasons to believe that a Gothic version of the
> > Revelation once existed?
> > > 
> > > Ualarauans
> > 
> > 
> > I'm not aware of any specific evidence one way or the other about
> > Revelation.  There are hints in the Vienna-Salzburg Codex that a
> > translation of Genesis existed, and there are a couple of clues to
> > suggest that there was a Gothic psalter.  John Chrysostomus mentions
> > in a homily that psalms were sung in Constantinople in Greek, Syrian,
> > Latin and Barbarian language; according to Elfriede Stutz, "es ist
> > kaum zu bezweifeln, dass mit THi BARBARWN FWNHi die got. Sprache
> > gemeint ist" (Gotische Literaturdenkmäler 1966, p. 30).  Then there is
> > the case of the two Goths who wrote to Jerome for his advice regarding
> > translating the psalms, although Stutz comments that it isn't clear
> > whether they had in mind translation into Gothic specifically.
> > 
> > LN
> >
>


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