I haven't seen you since we crossed the Danube...

[â—‹]

Hi!

I would too use 'fram' for since.

Ik gasahw þuk ni fram (þamma daga) weis ufarliþum Donawi.

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, Grsartor at ... wrote:
>
> Hi, All. About the meaning of duþe, and its possible use as a translation of "since".
> 
> The word seems to mean "for this or that reason", "therefore". Examples:
> 
> Matt 6:25 duþþe qiþa izwis: ni maurnaiþ saiwalai izwarai
> therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life
> 
> Mark 1:38 unte duþe qam.
> for that is why I came out
> 
> Luke 14:20 duþe ni mag qiman
> therefore I cannot come
> 
> Matt 27:8 duþþe haitans warþ akrs jains akrs bloþis und hina dag
> therefore that field has been called the Field of Blood to this day
> 
> (Note the Gothic use of the preterite where the English translation uses a perfect with present sense.)
> 
> The combination duþe ei has the meaning "since", but so far as I have been able to make out only in its sense of "because" rather than "after". Examples:
> 
> Luke 1:13 duþe ei andhausida ist bida þeina
> for your prayer is heard
> 
> Luke 1:20 duþe ei ni galaubides waurdam meinaim
> because you did not believe my words
> 
> Of course, it is only a small step from "after" to "because" (post hoc ergo propter hoc), but I can produce no examples from Gothic to justify duþe in the sense of since = after.
>  
> Gerry T.
> 
>  
> 
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: OSCAR HERRE <duke.co at ...>
> To: gothic-l at yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 4:19
> Subject: Re: [gothic-l] I haven't seen you since we crossed the Danube...
> 
> 
> isnt duthe the word for since......pretty sure it is....
> 
> --- On Sun, 9/19/10, Grsartor at ... <Grsartor at ...> wrote:
> 
> 
> From: Grsartor at ... <Grsartor at ...>
> Subject: Re: [gothic-l] I haven't seen you since we crossed the Danube...
> To: gothic-l at yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, September 19, 2010, 2:33 PM
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> Hi, All.
> 
> About how to say "since" in Gothic: as no-one else has replied, I offer a few 
> remarks in the hope that others with greater knowledge may be prompted to 
> answer, if only to put right whatever mistakes I make.
> 
> What we really ought to do is see whether the available texts give us any 
> examples of how Gothic coped. I do not know whether such exist, and in this 
> state of unblissful ignorance offer the following.
> 
> First, we have to distinguish between different uses of the word in question:
> 
> (1) as an adverb, eg "he had breakfast but has not eaten since".
> 
> (2) as a preposition, eg. "he has eaten nothing since breakfast".
> 
> (3) as a conjunction, eg "he has eaten nothing since he had breakfast".
> 
> There is also the question of what tense we should use. In a previous message I 
> said that it seems Gothic regularly used the preterite where English uses a 
> perfect, even when this perfect indicates a persisting state, and might well be 
> expressed by a present in other tongues than English (eg, he has been here for 
> three hours). If this is right, then it might be reasonable to express "since" 
> by "after". My second and third example sentences could then become:
> 
> (2) waiht ni matida afar undaurnimat.
> 
> (3) waiht ni matida afar þatei matida undaurnimat. A similar construction is 
> actually attested in Gothic: Afar þatei atgibans was Iohannes (Mark 1:14)
> 
> As for the adverbial use of "since", or "after", it might be reasonable to 
> render the first sentence as:
> 
> (1) matida undaurnimat iþ waiht ni matida afar þata. This construction is at any 
> rate paralleled in the surviving Gothic: Afar þata galaiþ Iesus (John 6:1)
> 
> A shortcoming of this way of coping with how to express "since" is that there 
> would be no distinction between the following:
> 
> (A) He did not smoke a cigar after breakfast.
> 
> (B) He has not smoked a cigar since breakfast.
> 
> In favour of the suggested use of "fram" for expressing "since" there is the 
> Gothic idiom "fram himma nu", which was used to mean "from now on".
> 
> I hope these remarks, if not specially useful, may spur others into offering 
> their help.
> 
> Gerry T.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Claire Knudsen-Latta <clairemargery at ...>
> To: gothic-l at yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 18:39
> Subject: [gothic-l] I haven't seen you since we crossed the Danube...
> 
> Ik ni gesahw þuk fram donaujai.
> 
> I'm having trouble with the last bit of the translation, would _fram_ be the
> correct preposition? And, do I need to include the "we crossed" bit or
> could that be implied?
> 
> Thanks,
> Claire
> 
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