Introduction and King Wamba

[Ingemar Nordgren]

Thank you Andreas! 

You are a steady rock to lean towards when troublesome questions appear!

All the best
Ingemar

--- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "Andreas Schwarcz" <andreas.schwarcz at ...> wrote:
>
> Dear Ingemar,
> No,it was not in use before the Visigoths became 
> catholics, and some suppose that it was introduced 
> by Chindasvinth. But José Orlandis already refers to 
> a citation of unctioned bishops and kings in 
> Isidore's De rebus ecclesiasticis before 631 C.E. 
> and thought it probable that already Liuva II, the 
> son of Reccared, was unctioned.
> 
> All the best,
>                 Andreas
> 
>  
> 
> "-"
> ao.Univ.Prof.Dr.Andreas Schwarcz
> Institut für österreichische  Geschichtsforschung
> Universität Wien
> Dr.Karl Lueger-Ring 1
> A 1010 Wien
> Austria
> Tel.0043/1/42-77-272-16
> Fax 0043/1/42-77-92-72
> andreas.schwarcz at ...
> 
> 
> On 12 Feb 2012 at 17:59, Ingemar Nordgren wrote:
> 
> > 
> >  
> > Hi Andreas!
> > 
> > I did not grasp the meaning of unction but now I have checked. I should 
> > have done it before of course. Still it is evidently a ceremonie that 
> > was not in use in Arian times as far as I grasp.
> > 
> > Best wishes
> > Ingemar
> > 
> > --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "Andreas Schwarcz" 
> > <andreas.schwarcz@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Wamba was indeed the first king of the Visigoths for 
> > > whom the ceremony of unction is expressedly 
> > > attested, but alreeady the canones of the IVth 
> > > council of Toledo in 633 imply that the kings were 
> > > unctioned as part of their accession to the throne 
> > > after the example of king David.
> > > 
> > > All the best,
> > > Andreas
> > > 
> > > "-"
> > > ao.Univ.Prof.Dr.Andreas Schwarcz
> > > Institut für österreichische Geschichtsforschung
> > > Universität Wien
> > > Dr.Karl Lueger-Ring 1
> > > A 1010 Wien
> > > Austria
> > > Tel.0043/1/42-77-272-16
> > > Fax 0043/1/42-77-92-72
> > > andreas.schwarcz@
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On 12 Feb 2012 at 12:29, Ingemar Nordgren wrote:
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > There are several legends about Wamba and it is definitely not the 
> > usual 
> > > > way a Visigothic king was appointed. Some details even seem to be 
> > part 
> > > > of the trubadour tradition from Provence which later continues in 
> > the 
> > > > stories of King Arthur like the hunt of the hind. Also in the 
> > Didriks 
> > > > saga the same story of the hunt is recognizeable and it has as well 
> > > > roots in the Bysantine tradition. I would pay no heed to that 
> > story.This 
> > > > was as well late in the Visigothic era and the kings now, since 
> > Reccared 
> > > > had claimed to be king of Gods grace, were Catholic and not Arian 
> > and 
> > > > the church had a strong position with the very conservative Catholic 
> > > > Councils in Toledo persecuting both Arians and Jews. A saintly king 
> > > > suited well into the picture. 
> > > > 
> > > > Welcome to the list. I as well hope we can discuss much history and 
> > not 
> > > > only language. It is a little peculiar that we discuss much more 
> > Gothic 
> > > > history on Germanic list than on Gothic where it indeed should be 
> > > > discussed.
> > > > 
> > > > Best greetings
> > > > Ingemar
> > > > 
> > > > --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "indiejones46" <indiana.jones465@> 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > > 
> > > > > I am new to this group and first wanted to introduce myself.
> > > > > 
> > > > > My name is Alex and i am interested in Gothic history (especially 
> > > > after reading a book on Alaric the Great). I have a background in 
> > > > archaeology (degree) and attend excavations in my spare time.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I feel i am just starting out on learning about the 'Goth's' and 
> > find 
> > > > this Forum useful. So thank you.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I wondered if i could throw out a question that has been 
> > intriguing me 
> > > > since i read about this. This is the 'unction' (right word?) of 
> > Wamba 
> > > > into a King. Is this the first king of the Visigothic race who was 
> > > > 'crowned' in this way? The description i read of the ceremonial rite 
> > > > seems exceedingly strange.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Does anyone here have a view on this? 
> > > > > 
> > > > > I would be most interested in discussing this further, of course, 
> > if 
> > > > others wish to as well.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Alex
> > > > >
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>


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