the book discussion

[MJ Hardman]

Ooops.  This is the correct version.

On 9/21/09 7:37 PM, "Dr. Hardman" <hardman at ufl.edu> wrote:

> In our Aymara course we only give the translation if asked (with a click), and
> then we also give the grammatical structure, again when asked (with a click).
> http://aymara.ufl.edu/.  I began doing this in books years ago, giving the
> same story with and without, in this case, Spanish, glosses, labeling it the
> Œteacher¹s version¹, e.g., a vocabulary listing, the story, the story with
> sentence gosses, then the story in Spanish then the story again in Jaqaru,
> alone.  This was for publishing without the fancy stuff we have today (think
> 30-~40 years ago).  We are now planning to follow the Aymara with Jaqaru and
> Kawki in the same way.  I do love the varieties of ways of handling the
> problem that you-all are giving.
> 
> MJ
> Dr. MJ Hardman
> Doctora Honoris Causa UNMSM, Lima, Perú
> website:  http://at.ufl.edu/~hardman-grove/
> 
> 
> 
> On 9/21/09 4:43 PM, "Tammy DeCoteau" <tdc.aaia at VERIZON.NET> wrote:
> 
>> Heather,
>> 
>> We did a book about community workers (Who am I?) where you give clues and
>> then lift the little cardboard to see the name of the worker and it was so
>> labor intensive that we eventually just put the answer on the next page.  Too
>> much gluing and cutting and then binding.  But then a person could actually
>> print two books, one with English and one without.
>> 
>> We did our own recording using a free program - Audacity - it was easy to use
>> for a novice and then we burn the cds and put a plastic sticky cd holder on
>> the inside of the front cover.  It took awhile but we even figured out how to
>> insert a little chime so you know when to turn the page.  Because we do so
>> many, we bought a cd/dvd printer (which can make 100 at a time.) 
>> 
>> Tammy DeCoteau
>> AAIA Native Language Program
>> 
>> 
>> On Sep 21, 2009, Heather Souter <hsouter at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>> 
>>> Taanshi kiiyawaw, hello all,
>>> 
>>> I really appreciate this thread!
>>> I am working on a book in Michif with an Elder and was thinking about
>>> this very issue. I am thinking bout doing subtitling but binding a
>>> thin cardboard or plastic strip(s?) between pages so that this (these)
>>> can be used to "hide" the English and also having a recording of our
>>> Elder reading/telling the story.... Any other ideas?
>>> 
>>> Eekoshi pitamaa. That is it for now.
>>> Heather
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Bernadette Santamaria
>>> <bernisantamaria at gmail.> wrote:
>>>> > I agree with T. DeCoteau's assessment on whether to use subtitles--I've
>>>> > taught Apache at the university level--English subtitles "interfere" with
>>>> > teaching.  I found that students depend on them instead of learning the
>>>> > words on their own with my oral-only presentations in class. They would
>>>> > concentrate instead, on writing the word in Apache & English for their
>>>> notes
>>>> > & not be concentration on listening or pronouncing.
>>>> >
>>>> > I switched to not writing the words on the board or anything but used
>>>> only
>>>> > immersion methods and got better results at end of semester. One thing in
>>>> > our favor for Apache students from our tribe is that they still have
>>>> > speakers all around them at various domains at our reservation--speakers
>>>> of
>>>> > ages 40 and over. Those under that age are less fluent but still do have
a
>>>> > higher percentage of fluent speakers among younger people than other
>>>> > Indigenous groups, even some children but we know that we need to be
>>>> > conducting language maintenance and revitalization programming too to
>>>> avoid
>>>> > further attrition of our language.
>>>> >
>>>> > Just contributing my comments.....
>>>> >
>>>> > Bernadette A. SantaMaria
>>>> > Language/Cultura Consultant
>>>> > White Mountain Apache Tribe
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 9:52 AM, Tammy DeCoteau <tdc.aaia at verizon.net>
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Han Mitakuyapi,
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> I have been following the book discussions going on.  Two very
>>>>> important
>>>>> >> things have been brought up.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> To subtitle or not to subtitle.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> This is something that our program has struggled with.  Initially, we
>>>>> were
>>>>> >> attempting an immersion program in a daycare at the local tribal
>>>>> college.
>>>>> >> The problem was everything was in English.  And then another problem
>>>>> was
>>>>> >> that most of the people in the videos and books were non-Indian.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> This was when we started creating our own materials.  First we tried
>>>>> >> handwriting the Dakotah.  What happened was that the English looked all
>>>>> nice
>>>>> >> and the Dakotah looked second-class.  So then we tried printing the
>>>>> Dakotah
>>>>> >> on stickers.  That didn't look so great either.  So eventually we
>>>>> decided to
>>>>> >> create our own.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> It was then, that the discussion on whether to subtitle was held.  On
>>>>> the
>>>>> >> reservation where we are located, we are fortunate (by many standards)
to
>>>>> >> have around 100 speakers.  But of those, even less ever learned to
>>>>> read in
>>>>> >> Dakotah.  However, we have the date of birth of 54 of those speaking
>>>>> elders
>>>>> >> and have determined that the average age of those speakers is 76.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> The next generation, in their 40's or 50's has only a handful of
>>>>> >> speakers.  And the young parents of today, still another generation
>>>>> away,
>>>>> >> has no speakers.  So these young parents, and the grandparents of our
>>>>> >> children are not speakers.  So they can neither speak nor read in
>>>>> >> Dakotah.  We have had some of our books narrated and tell parents these
>>>>> cds
>>>>> >> are for them to learn to read to their children.  But because of all of
>>>>> >> this, we did subtitle.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> I think subtitling would depend on whether you are an immersion program
--
>>>>> >> then absolutely no English -- and whether your population could read
>>>>> the
>>>>> >> book.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Tammy DeCoteau
>>>>> >> AAIA Native Language Program
>>>> >
>> 
> 

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