txakur/dzhagaru/cachorro....

[Rick Mc Callister]

[snip]
>>[RMCC]
>>	[snip] re: Spanish sabueso "bloodhound" [snip]

>I would guess directly from substrate. Otherwise the /a/ of the first
>syllable is also hard to derive from Latin /e/. The first "u" of segusius is
>presumed long on the basis of "grecizzato" egousia, which I neglected to
>mention in my posting. 3 of the 4 possible variations of /a:e/
>correspondence are found in presumed substratal words:

>  Lat. cerrus, It. cerro, Sp. carrasco 'holm-oak'
>  Lat. larix, It. larice, Sp. alerce 'larch'
>  Lat. betula, It. betulla, Sp. abedul 'birch'
>  It. cheppia, Sp. sa'balo, saboga, saboca 'shad'

carrasco is a real can of worms
It resembles Latin quercus "oak" and various *garr-, *karr- words for
"hard" enough to fire people up but the clues are complicated.

also Spanish la/rice for "larch"
I'm guessing that both alerce and abedul are via Mozarabic
Here's what I've found on "larch"
lárice, alerce "larch"

	< Latin larix, larice (f., m.) "mélèze", "resin de mélèze"
[Ernout & Meillet 1939: 524; Migliorini 1966: 60]
	< Latin larix, laricem (acc.) "larch" [Partridge 1958: 337]
	< ? Alpine language, Celtic? [Ernout & Meillet 1939: 524]
	< larik- [Partridge 1958: 337]
	< Celtic, Alpine language [Partridge 1958: 337]
	see German Lärche, MHG lerche < Latin [Partridge 1958: 337]

I'd expect something like *bedoja or *bedolla as cognate to Italian betulla
or maybe *bedola from Latin *betula (with short /i/)

Here's what Corominas has to say re: Spanish sa/balo
sa/balo "shad"
	c. 1330 [Corominas 1980]
	savalus 961 [Corominas 1980]
	see Portuguese sável 1223; Catalan & Aragonese savoga 1335, saboca
[Corominas 1980]
	< ? Celtic samos "summer" [Corominas 1980]
	< *sabolos [Corominas 1980]
	< *sabauca [Corominas 1980]
	< samauca; -m- > -b- typical of Celtic [Corominas 1980]
	< ? Great Britain [Corominas 1980]
Italian cheppia definitely looks out of place in regard to Corominas's entry

	If they came into Spanish via Mozarabic, the vowels may have been
affected by the Arabic vowel system. But someone more versed in Mozarabic
would have to confirm [or deny] that.

[snip]
>>	So Alessio proposed the Lusitanians = "IE Ligurians" = Illyrians
>>hypothesis? By "IE Ligurians", I mean the non-Celtic, non-Italic IE
>>speakers of N Italy & S France
>>	I've also seen claims that the Sikani themselves were Ligurians
>>based on toponymic similarities between names in Sicily and Liguria

	The IE vs. non-IE "Ligurians" are a headache. I liked Corominas's
use of Sorotaptic but does anyone else use it?

[snip]

	I think Pallottini equated non-Celtic, non-Italic IE-speakers with
"Ligurians" back in the 30s or 40s

>In my own humble view, the Siculi probably represent the first wave of
>IE-speakers into Italy, responsible for forms in which PIE medial *dh has
>become /t/ (Aitne/Aetna, Rutuli, Liternum/Leuternon, and probably the source
>of Etr. lautni 'freedman'). Thucydides (VI.2.4) says there were still some
>Siculi in Italy in his time. The Sicani claimed to be Iberians, but if this
>term is understood geographically, they might be identifiable with the
>non-Celtic, non-Italic IE-speakers of Liguria, and their later migration to
>Sicily might explain the similarity of toponyms.
[snip]

>DGK

Rick Mc Callister
W-1634
Mississippi University for Women
Columbus MS 39701