children who begin speaking in chunks

Ann Peters ann at hawaii.edu
Wed Mar 31 15:29:25 UTC 2010 

I did some writing on these issues in the early 80s, particularly addressing children who were near Katherine Nelson's Expressive end of the continuum. My 1983 monograph, The Units of Language Acquisition, is long out of print, but I managed to get back the copyright and it is now posted on my web site, for the easy taking.
ann

Ann M. Peters, PhD
Professor Emerita and Co-Graduate Chair
Department of Linguistics, 1890 East West Road
Honolulu HI 96822               808 956-8602
ann at hawaii.edu                  http://www.ling.hawaii.edu/faculty/ann



----- Original Message -----
From: "Nelson, Katherine" <KNelson at gc.cuny.edu>
Date: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 7:05 am
Subject: RE: mystery book (children who begin speaking in sentences)
To: "info-childes at googlegroups.com" <info-childes at googlegroups.com>

> Hi to Jesse and all,
> I do not know the book or books referred to, but the phenomenon 
> of late talkers who begin to talk in sentences almost as soon as 
> they begin to talk at all is not exceedingly rare, at least in 
> my experience.  It has occurred in my extended family 
> several times: my second child (Laura) said almost nothing until 
> the end of the second year, and by 24 months was talking 
> extensively in complete sentences. (I had not entered graduate 
> school at that time and did not keep a record, but the 
> phenonenon was notable because my first daughter talked early 
> and acquired an extensive lexicon by 18 months.) Laura's 
> daughter (my granddaughter) followed the same pattern - 
> virtually no babble, completely normal comprehension, and at 25 
> months beginning with sentences, rapidly catching up.  My 
> niece, whom I did not track so closely, apparently followed the 
> same pattern.
> 
> One of the boys in my 1973 monograph study (second-born) also 
> followed this pattern.  Those familiar with the monograph 
> recall that I focused on individual differences, but the 
> Expressive group was different - these children spoke at similar 
> times and rates to the Referential (object-word group) but in 
> small phrases or expressions.  I think of the silent one's 
> (no or a few scattered words rarely used until 2-years) as a 
> rarer but not exotically rare case of the individuality of 
> learning to talk.  I strongly believe that it is a mistake 
> to instruct parents to expect early word learning of mainly 
> nouns, but rather to expect individuality in becoming a language 
> user.  Of course, I believe that it is a mistake for 
> psychologists or speech and hearing experts to expect all 
> children to follow the mean pattern too.  Comprehension of 
> what is said is a much better indication of language during the 
> second year than production, in my view. The following 
> references discuss the significance of individuality in the 
> process of learning to talk.
> 
> 
> Nelson, K. (1973). "Structure and strategy in learning to talk." 
> Monographs of the Society for Research in Child Development 38 
> (1-2, Serial No. 149).
>  
> Nelson, K. (1981). "Individual differences in language 
> development: Implications for development and language." 
> Developmental Psychology 17: 170-187.
> 
> Lieven, E. V. M., J. M. Pine, et al. (1992). "Individual 
> differences in early vocabulary development: redefining the 
> referential-expressive distinction." Journal of Child Language 
> 19: 287-310.
>  
> Hampson, J. and K. Nelson (1993). "The relation of maternal 
> language to variation in rate and style of language 
> acquisition." Journal of child language 20: 313-342.
>   
> Nelson, K., J. Hampson, et al. (1993). "Nouns in early lexicons: 
> Evidence, explanations, and implications." Journal of Child 
> Language 20: 61-84.
> 
> Katherine Nelson
>  
> 
> ________________________________________
> From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [info-
> childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Celeste Kidd 
> [ckidd at bcs.rochester.edu]Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 1:34 AM
> To: info-childes at googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: mystery book (children who begin speaking in sentences)
> 
> Hi, Jesse (& all).
> 
> I don't think it's likely that these are the books you are 
> looking for,
> since they were only published in 1998 (does that count as years and
> years ago?) and they don't quite follow the flow you describe
> (evaluating various claims, then reaching a maybe reasonable
> conclusion), but I thought it might be helpful to point them out 
> in case
> you hadn't already encountered them in your most recent search. Thomas
> Sowell's "Late-Talking Children" and "The Einstein Syndrome: Bright
> Children Who Talk Late" make reference to these sorts of claims. 
> On page
> 18 of "Einstein", Thomas Sowell writes:
> 
> "In short, there is no standard way in which late-talking 
> children like
> these finally begin to speak ... Some begin to speak as other children
> do, first in babbles and isolated words, and then proceed in stages
> toward normal speech, only later than other children. In other cases,
> however, children with delayed speech development did not coo or 
> babbleas other infants do, but remained silent right up to the 
> moment where
> they suddenly startle their parents by speaking a complete sentence."
> 
> He makes reference to kids in his own and Stephen Camarata's 
> studies on
> late-talkers in this chapter. I am not sure about the 
> reliability of
> these claims, as I have not actually sought out and read the 
> studies he
> refers to. A Dateline NBC episode on Camarata I saw in high school
> called my attention to these.
> 
> Sowell mentions a bunch of famous sentences-before-words claims and
> claimers, like hydrogen-bomb inventor Edward Teller, Nobel-prize 
> winningeconomist Gary Becker and physicist Richard Feynman. He 
> also talks about
> a lot of acquaintances-of-friends who talked late and in whole
> sentences. I checked his website in the hopes of finding 
> something more
> about the studies he refers to, but didn't find them. I did find 
> a link
> to an article where Sowell expresses his skepticism that global 
> warmingis a thing though
> (http://www.creators.com/opinion/thomas-sowell.html?columnsName=tso),
> which is perhaps an indication of the value Sowell places on empirical
> evidence when making claims.
> 
> Good luck in your search!
> 
> Cheers,
> Celeste
> 
> CELESTE KIDD | Brain & Cognitive Sciences
> Meliora Hall 323F, Box 270268
> University of Rochester, Rochester, NY 14627-0268
> Email: ckidd at bcs.rochester.edu
> Web: www.bcs.rochester.edu/people/ckidd/
> Mobile: 617 515 2461
> 
> 
> 
> 
> snedeker at wjh.harvard.edu wrote:
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > Years and years ago I ran into a book when wandering through the
> > library stacks and I've never been able to find it 
> again.  The topic
> > was on children who are reported to skip the early stages of 
> language> production and launch immediately begin into full 
> sentences.  The
> > author tried to track down some cases and concluded (if I remember
> > correctly) that there did appear to be some valid reports but they
> > were rarer than is usually believed.
> >
> > Does anyone remember this book?  Or for that matter any 
> other evidence
> > validating this claim.  It crops up from time to time in review
> > chapters and books but I can never figure out the origin of 
> the claim.
> >
> > gratefully,
> > Jesse Snedeker
> >
> 
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