pragmatic bootstrapping
suse
sgrass at gmx.net
Tue Mar 22 16:29:11 UTC 2011
i wouldn't eve have thought that "anti-pragmatic ability is the sign
of true acquisition"...
Does that mean that one fully acquired language only when one is able to
use it inappropriately?
If this is what is meant, then i wonder how humankind was able to
maintain the ability to communicate linguistically. Or does the above
statement mean that true acquisition relates to the ability to
understand sentences which make no or little sense in our world (but may
be true in other worlds in which mice get eaten by cheese rather than
the other way round and in which Chomsky is an advocate of pragmatic
bootstrapping?)
regards,
Suse
Am 22-03-11 17:03, schrieb Tom Roeper:
> Sorry---you know I was typing fast, and it is 1976---but I guess if we
> went back to Panini, one
> could probably find the idea earlier.
>
> Tom
>
> On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 11:44 AM, Matthew Saxton <M.Saxton at ioe.ac.uk
> <mailto:M.Saxton at ioe.ac.uk>> wrote:
>
> > ...... /embedded in Chomsky's remark in 1076 ....../
>
> I realise Chomsky has been around for some time, but who’d’ve
> though it? He precedes the invention of the printing press......
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Matthew Saxton.
>
> *********************************************************************************************************
>
> Saxton Academic Homepage
> <http://www.ioe.ac.uk/staff/PHDT/PHDT_71.html>
>
> *From:*info-childes at googlegroups.com
> <mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com>
> [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com
> <mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com>] *On Behalf Of *Tom Roeper
> *Sent:* 22 March 2011 12:37
> *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com
> <mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com>
> *Subject:* Re: pragmatic bootstrapping
>
> Anat---
> in the paper I wrote in 1981 for the Wanner Gleitman volume, I
> argued that children needed pragmatic
> mapping onto syntax to justify transformations. That means a
> simultaneous syntactic and pragmatic
> information. It is in my book as well---and actually embedded in
> Chomsky's remark in 1076 Reflections
> on Language, that acqusition must be consistent with "trigtering
> experience" I said to him that must include
> pragmatics and he agreed.
> It is obvious that it is hard to understand:
> the cat was chased by the dog.
> but the chld has a big semantic.pragmatic advantage when they hear:
>
> the milk was drunk by the boy
>
> because they know that milk cannot drink boy. If there is syntax
> is ready to project a transformation,
> then they use that information and visual support to say "milk has
> to get into the object position somehow,
> do I have a mental operation to do it".
> Once acquired, it will be autonomous and apply without
> pragmatics, so if I tell a 3yr old:
>
> the cheese ate the mouse
>
> they laugh, because they know, anti-pragmatically, that it is
> true. An anti-pragmatic ability is the
> sign of true acquisition.
>
> best, Tom Roeper
>
> On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 6:17 PM, parisa Daftarifard
> <pdaftaryfard at gmail.com <mailto:pdaftaryfard at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Dear Anat,
>
> Very interesting topic.....I am not sure but lack of language
> development or language development delay can occur because of
> problems in pragmatic bootstrapping in some children. Kids with
> low possibility of being involved in interaction-- when mothers or
> fathers are busy or when kids live in a poor-interaction
> environment-- showed to have language delay. This is especially
> interesting when we consider that TVs are always on and they can
> get enough input in a unilateral way.
>
> Best.
>
> Parisa Daftarifard
>
> On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 7:37 AM, Anat Ninio
> <msninio at pluto.mscc.huji.ac.il
> <mailto:msninio at pluto.mscc.huji.ac.il>> wrote:
>
> Dear List,
>
> Sorry to have sent this to the whole list by mistake, but actually
> I'd love to hear from anybody who knows of studies that can be
> said to test the hypothesis that children learn syntax by
> "pragmatic bootstrapping".
>
> Thanks,
>
> Anat Ninio
>
>
> On 17-03-11 06:01, Anat Ninio wrote:
>
> Hi Nameera,
>
> Thanks a lot! Absolutely coincidentally this very minute I'm
> reading your 2008 (or is it 2009?) encyclopedia entry
>
> Akhtar, N., & Herold, K. (2008). Pragmatic development. In M. M.
> Haith & J. B. Benson (Eds.), /Encyclopedia of infant and early
> childhood development,/ Vol. /2/ (pp. 572-581). San Diego, CA:
> Academic Press.
>
> which I want to cite for a research proposal for an European
> grant. First, is it 2008 or 2009? Second, you say
>
> "We know of no empirical research, however, that has directly
> addressed the question of whether children learn syntactic
> constructions in the same way as they learn words; that is,
> through "pragmatic bootstrapping" or attention to speakers'
> intentions."(p.319)
>
> Would you still say so? Or is there some new study that you know
> of thatI should mention? Any newer publication of yours on this point?
>
> Thanks a lot and see you in SRCD for sure,
>
> Anat
>
>
> On 17-03-11 05:14, nameera akhtar wrote:
>
> congratulations, anat!
>
> hope to see you at srcd,
>
> nameera
>
> On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 7:44 PM, Anat Ninio
> <msninio at pluto.mscc.huji.ac.il
> <mailto:msninio at pluto.mscc.huji.ac.il>> wrote:
>
> Dear Friends and Colleagues,
>
> I'm very happy to be able to announce the publication of my new
> book by Oxford University Press. It is entitled "Syntactic
> development, its input and output" and a description of it, as
> well as a link to the Introduction, can be found on the
> publisher's on-line catalogue at
> http://ukcatalogue.oup.com/product/9780199565962.do
>
> I hope you'll like it!
>
> Anat Ninio
>
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> --
>
> Parisa Daftarifard
>
> Phd Student of TEFL
>
> Islamic Azad University of Science and Research
>
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> --
> Tom Roeper
> Dept of Lingiustics
> UMass South College
> Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA
> 413 256 0390 <tel:413%20256%200390>
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> Tom Roeper
> Dept of Lingiustics
> UMass South College
> Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA
> 413 256 0390
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