pragmatic bootstrapping

Tue Mar 22 17:54:21 UTC 2011

You can call it a different one---but a lot of what we imagine is entirely
in our heads, so how does it qualify as a context?

On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 1:49 PM, Yonata Levy <msyonata at huji.ac.il> wrote:

> Is it liberation from context or the adoption of a different one?
> Seems to me imagination is about possible worlds, i.e. other contexts
> Yonata
>
> On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 5:08 PM, Tom Roeper <roeper at linguist.umass.edu>wrote:
>
>> It is pretty simple---if language is an autonomous system--we can form
>> non-sense sentences---and
>> possibly worlds.  All of creativity involves imagining and distorting how
>> things are--going against
>> context and reality----sometimes in a possible world, or may be an
>> impossible one.
>>     this is what Jabberwocky showed about a century ago.  It is the moment
>> of liberation from context
>> that we have to capture.
>>
>> Tom
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 12:29 PM, suse <sgrass at gmx.net> wrote:
>>
>>>  i wouldn't eve have thought that "anti-pragmatic ability is the sign of
>>> true acquisition"...
>>>
>>> Does that mean that one fully acquired language only when one is able to
>>> use it inappropriately?
>>> If this is what is meant, then i wonder how humankind was able to
>>> maintain the ability to communicate linguistically. Or does the above
>>> statement mean that true acquisition relates to the ability to understand
>>> sentences which make no or little sense in our world (but may be true in
>>> other worlds in which mice get eaten by cheese rather than the other way
>>> round and in which Chomsky is an advocate of pragmatic bootstrapping?)
>>>
>>> regards,
>>> Suse
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 22-03-11 17:03, schrieb Tom Roeper:
>>>
>>> Sorry---you know I was typing fast, and it is 1976---but I guess if we
>>> went back to Panini, one
>>> could probably find the idea earlier.
>>>
>>> Tom
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 11:44 AM, Matthew Saxton <M.Saxton at ioe.ac.uk>wrote:
>>>
>>>>  > ...... *embedded in Chomsky's remark in 1076 ......*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I realise Chomsky has been around for some time, but who’d’ve though it?
>>>> He precedes the invention of the printing press......
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best wishes,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Matthew Saxton.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *********************************************************************************************************
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Saxton Academic Homepage <http://www.ioe.ac.uk/staff/PHDT/PHDT_71.html>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:
>>>> info-childes at googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Tom Roeper
>>>> *Sent:* 22 March 2011 12:37
>>>> *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com
>>>> *Subject:* Re: pragmatic bootstrapping
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Anat---
>>>>     in the paper I wrote in 1981 for the Wanner Gleitman volume, I
>>>> argued that children needed pragmatic
>>>> mapping onto syntax to justify transformations.  That means a
>>>> simultaneous syntactic and pragmatic
>>>> information.  It is in my book as well---and actually embedded in
>>>> Chomsky's remark in 1076 Reflections
>>>> on Language, that acqusition must be consistent with "trigtering
>>>> experience" I said to him that must include
>>>> pragmatics and he agreed.
>>>>    It is obvious that it is hard to understand:
>>>>        the cat was chased by the dog.
>>>> but the chld has a big semantic.pragmatic  advantage when they hear:
>>>>
>>>> the milk was drunk by the boy
>>>>
>>>> because they know that milk cannot drink boy.  If there is syntax is
>>>> ready to project a transformation,
>>>> then they use that information and visual support to say "milk has to
>>>> get into the object position somehow,
>>>> do I have a mental operation to do it".
>>>>       Once acquired, it will be autonomous and apply without pragmatics,
>>>> so if I tell a 3yr old:
>>>>
>>>>       the cheese ate the mouse
>>>>
>>>> they laugh, because they know, anti-pragmatically, that it is true.  An
>>>> anti-pragmatic ability is the
>>>> sign of true acquisition.
>>>>
>>>> best, Tom  Roeper
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 6:17 PM, parisa Daftarifard <
>>>> pdaftaryfard at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Dear Anat,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Very interesting topic.....I am not sure but lack of language
>>>> development or language development delay can occur because of problems in
>>>> pragmatic bootstrapping in some children. Kids with low possibility of being
>>>> involved in interaction-- when mothers or fathers are busy or when kids live
>>>> in a poor-interaction environment-- showed to have language delay. This is
>>>> especially interesting when we consider that TVs are always on and they can
>>>> get enough input in a unilateral way.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Best.
>>>>
>>>> Parisa Daftarifard
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 7:37 AM, Anat Ninio <
>>>> msninio at pluto.mscc.huji.ac.il> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Dear List,
>>>>
>>>> Sorry to have sent this to the whole list by mistake, but actually I'd
>>>> love to hear from anybody who knows of studies that can be said to test the
>>>> hypothesis that children learn syntax by "pragmatic bootstrapping".
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Anat Ninio
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 17-03-11 06:01, Anat Ninio wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Nameera,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks a lot!  Absolutely coincidentally this very minute I'm reading
>>>> your 2008 (or is it 2009?) encyclopedia entry
>>>>
>>>> Akhtar, N., & Herold, K. (2008). Pragmatic development. In M. M. Haith &
>>>> J. B. Benson (Eds.), *Encyclopedia of infant and early childhood
>>>> development,* Vol. *2* (pp. 572-581). San Diego, CA: Academic Press.
>>>>
>>>> which I want to cite for a research proposal for an European grant.
>>>> First, is it 2008 or 2009? Second, you say
>>>>
>>>> "We know of no empirical research, however, that has directly addressed
>>>> the question of whether children learn syntactic constructions in the same
>>>> way as they learn words; that is,  through "pragmatic bootstrapping" or
>>>> attention to speakers' intentions." (p.319)
>>>>
>>>> Would you still say so? Or is there some new study that you know of that I
>>>> should mention? Any newer publication of yours on this point?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks a lot and see you in SRCD for sure,
>>>>
>>>> Anat
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 17-03-11 05:14, nameera akhtar wrote:
>>>>
>>>> congratulations, anat!
>>>>
>>>> hope to see you at srcd,
>>>>
>>>> nameera
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 7:44 PM, Anat Ninio <
>>>> msninio at pluto.mscc.huji.ac.il> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Dear Friends and Colleagues,
>>>>
>>>> I'm very happy to be able to announce the publication of my new book by
>>>> Oxford University Press.  It is entitled   "Syntactic development, its
>>>> input and output" and a description of it, as well as a link to the
>>>> Introduction, can be found on the publisher's on-line catalogue at
>>>> http://ukcatalogue.oup.com/product/9780199565962.do
>>>>
>>>> I hope you'll like it!
>>>>
>>>> Anat Ninio
>>>>
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>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Parisa Daftarifard
>>>>
>>>> Phd Student of TEFL
>>>>
>>>> Islamic Azad University of Science and Research
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Tom Roeper
>>>> Dept of Lingiustics
>>>> UMass South College
>>>> Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA
>>>> 413 256 0390
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Tom Roeper
>>> Dept of Lingiustics
>>> UMass South College
>>> Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA
>>> 413 256 0390
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Tom Roeper
>> Dept of Lingiustics
>> UMass South College
>> Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA
>> 413 256 0390
>>
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>
>
>
> --
>  *Prof. Yonata Levy*
> *Psychology Department *
> *and Hadassah-Hebrew University Medical School*
> *Mount Scopus*
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> **
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-- 
Tom Roeper
Dept of Lingiustics
UMass South College
Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA
413 256 0390

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