MLU for languages with complex morphology

Mon May 20 14:28:20 UTC 2013

hi Katie,
I only know of an article written in 2005 regarding this matter.
Kind regards,
Véronique Devianne
Speech therapist
Doctorante Sciences du Langage, Université Sorbonne Nouvelle Paris 3

From: Yonata Levy 
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 3:30 PM
To: CHILDES 
Subject: Re: MLU for languages with complex morphology

Since MLU is a heuristic measure, seems to me  the solution to this problem cannot be universal. Rather, it is necessary to establish a method of counting which will be verified against theoretically-motivated developmental trajectories to achieve comparative standards. In our studies of Hebrew speaking children (Hebrew being a root-based, rich morphological language) we are using a method of counting MLU that takes into consideration the structure of Hebrew along with the need to guard against an inflated MLU. Our way of calculating MLU could perhaps inform other root-based languages such as Arabic but probably not languages with a different typology.
Yonata.

On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 2:47 PM, marilyn vihman <marilyn.vihman at york.ac.uk> wrote:

  I think one of the key problems with calculating MLU in morphemes - although it seems the right way to compare across languages, in principle - is the productivity problem: How do we know which morphemes the child really has any kind of mastery over? Is it sensible or appropriate to count all morphemes as if the child were using them productively, without any test to see if that is true or not? This may give an artificially high count to languages with synthetic morphology, lots of morphemes packed into a single affix...or is a morpheme only counted based on form? Even then, if the presence or absence of a single consonant means having one morpheme or two...less of an issue for English, say, than for many other Indo-European languages...then we probably need much more careful transcription of the phonetics of the child's speech than is usually thought necessary in morphosyntactic studies... 

  -marilyn

  On 20 maj 2013, at 13.40, Isa Barriere wrote:

    I meant to add:

    In contrast with a mophologically impoverished/poor language, the number of morphemes will tend to be positively correlated with the number of words, which is why it is not as crucial to calculate MLU in morphemes. 

    Good morning, 
    Isn't there a negative correlation between morphological complexity of a given language and the average number of words that an utterance contains in the same language?

    If we take the examples in Inuktitut (given Shanley Allen's book based on her dissertation- Allen 1989 or 1990, in the appendix), looking at the utterances taking into account the # of words, many of them would only 1 word.  However this does not capture the complexity of the meaning and the structure- that MLU does.

    So for different stages of devlpt and in the adult language the number of word per utterance may be limited and pretty stable and the progression is therefore best assessed taking into account number of morphemes (less stable across ages and stages). 

    Isabelle Barriere, PhD

    On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 7:37 AM, Isa Barriere <barriere.isa at gmail.com> wrote:

      Good morning, 
      Isn't there a negative correlation between morphological complexity of a given language and the average number of words that an utterance contains in the same language?

      If we take the examples in Inuktitut (given Shanley Allen's book based on her dissertation- Allen 1989 or 1990, in the appendix), looking at the utterances taking into account the # of words, many of them would only 1 word.  However this does not capture the complexity of the meaning and the structure- that MLU does.

      So for different stages of devlpt and in the adult language the number of word per utterance may be limited and pretty stable and the progression is therefore best assessed taking into account number of morphemes (less stable across ages and stages). 

      Isabelle Barriere, PhD

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Prof. Yonata Levy
Psychology Department 
and Hadassah-Hebrew University Medical School
Mount Scopus
Jerusalem 91905, ISRAEL

tel:972-2-5883408 (o)
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