[Lexicog] accusatory observation?

[Thapelo Otlogetswe]

In Setswana you would have "O digile pena" - [you dropped the/a pen]. A pen dropped [Pena e ole] would suggest that the pen is not in anyone's care, or no one is responsible for dropping it - it fell on its own.

Thapelo


"Dr. Hayim Y. Sheynin" <hsheynin at gratz.edu> wrote:

Dear Mike,

Russian and Hebrew languages have the same way to express
"You dropped your pen" as English and German. So in this particular
aspect they are similar to English and German, even it is widely known,
that in most of other aspects they are quite different languages.
The question here is not merely linguistic, but a stylistic one,
which languages prefer passive constructions and in what particular
circumstances.
Sometimes it is also a question of semantics. Consider Cesars' locution "Alea jacta est." (the die is cast).The Latin language allows to say "Jeci aleam." (I've cast the die), but it was important to stress the fact that the die is cast, and there is no a way back.

Best wishes,
Hayim Y. Sheynin

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike_Cahill at sil.org [mailto:Mike_Cahill at sil.org]
Sent: â 08 îøõ 2005 09:46
To: lexicographylist at yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Lexicog] accusatory observation?


Hi all,
This is only marginally related to lexicography, but then we've had some
marginal discussions before...

Someone wrote to me:

He (the teacher had one activity for us (the class) in which he dropped
a pen, and then he
asked us what we would say to him. ("You dropped your pen") Then he
asked
anyone who spoke another language how they would say it in another
language,
and what the direct translation was. (Usually "the pen dropped"). He
said
that only in English and in German you would say "You dropped the pen",
and
that ALL OTHER LANGUAGES would say "the pen dropped". He then went on
to
say that we can learn things about the culture from the way we say
things,
and had us come up with words to describe the two types of cultures
represented by these two phrases. The majority of responses had English

speakers being accusatory, or some other unsavory adjective, and the
other
speakers being much more polite and sensitive.

Anytime someone claims a universal, my tendency is to say "Oh I bet I can
find a counterexample." So my question to those of you who are native
speakers of something other than English or German, what is the most
NATURAL way to make an observation of someone dropping something, to call
that person's attention to it? Not what is possible, but the most common
way of saying it. Facts first, then interpretation...

Mike Cahill





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Thapelo Otlogetswe
Information Technology Research Institute
University of Brighton
Lewes Road, Brighton
BN2 4GJ, England
Tel: (+44) 1273 642912 (office)
      (+44) 1273 642908 (fax)
http://www.itri.brighton.ac.uk/~Thapelo.Otlogetswe/



		
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