[Lexicog] Re: When Semantics Doesn't Matter

[bolstar1]

Fritz, Hayim, David: I'm enjoying your posts re: original NT 
writings. It's odd to me that linguistic analysis hasn't yet teased 
out the original language that all the texts of the NT were written 
in (except for the letters of Paul to actual Greek (Asia Minor) 
cities (Corinthians I & II, Galatians, Esphesians, Philippians, 
Colosians, Thessalonians -- and probably Romans, too). Paul himself 
was born in Tarsus (Asia Minor) and grew up with the Greek tongue & 
culture -- and was a Roman citizen by birth, not having Palestine 
native-tongue Aramaic skills. Luke the physician, transcribed Paul's 
journeys and Acts of the Apostles (and who wrote one of the three 
synoptic Gospels) was almost certainly a Greek, too. The remaining 
twenty-seven books of the NT are up for conjecture.  
    But I've always had a question about one expression Jesus used 
speaking to his mother, when on the cross he said to her, "Mother, 
what is there in me and you." (Or "What do we have in common?") I've 
always heard that this was an Aramaic idiom, but I've never heard a 
background explanation. In the English translation, because there 
seems to be no equivalent, it sounds rather disrespectful. Yet, 
knowing how idioms (in the set-phrasal sense) are non-literal, I 
assume there is some interesting root (or softer connotation) than 
what the English affords. Is there anyone with knowledge of the 
origin of that expression? 

Scott N.



--- In lexicographylist at yahoogroups.com, Hayim Sheynin 
<hsheynin19444 at ...> wrote:
>
> Dear David and Fritz,
> 
> If anything, I intended that the original of some parts (like four 
synoptic  Gospels
> and Acts) of the NT could be or might be written in Palestinian 
Aramaic, perhaps Galilean dialect. I know that most of the 
theologians today are convinced that
> so called Q-text (a prototypal source of the NT) was written in 
Greek. But nobody saw this Q-text, and it seems to me logical  that 
it could be written in
> the original language of Jesus Christ and his disciples. Until the 
earliest text found, my suggestion must remain as a suggestion. If 
the original text had be
> written in Greek, I cannot understand an animosity of earlier 
Rabbis who saw
> the Christian teaching as very harmful for Rabbinic Judaism. The 
Jews of Rabbinic period (i.e. Hellenistic and Roman periods) did not 
have easy access to Greek writings. If they knew Greek, this was a 
street language. It is true for Palestine, but it is different for 
Alexandria and North African Jewish settlements. 
> Necessities of life pushed Greek words into Hebrew and Aramaic as 
loanwords,
> however it is not a proof of Palestinian Jews' proficiency in Greek.
> 
> Hayim Sheynin 
> 
> David Frank <david_frank at ...> 
wrote:                                     
> Fritz --
>   
>  I think what Scott meant was that the  New Testament as most 
people know it today -- i.e. in translation -- is derived  from the 
Greek (original). I understood his point to be that while the Old  
Testament was originally written in Hebrew and Aramaic, the New 
Testament was  originally written in Greek.
>   
>  Hayim had an interesting theory that  what we call the New 
Testament may have originally been written in Hebrew. That  is an 
intriguing idea, but as far as I know it is just a theory or 
speculation,  though as you said, Fritz, there is sometimes evidence 
of a Hebrew  substratum. As we have been discussing idiomatic 
phrases, I understand  that "son(s) of" as in "sons of thunder," "son 
of perdition," etc. is a  Hebrew idiom that was carried over 
literally into the Greek New Testament  scriptures. But you know this 
better than I do, Fritz.
>   
>  I have sometimes said something  similar to what Hayim said. I 
have pointed out that the Greek New Testament  scriptures were a 
translation in themselves, in that the words of Jesus and his  
followers would have been uttered in Aramaic but written down in 
Greek. Except  for those few cases that Hayim mentioned where the 
Aramaic utterances were  transliterated rather than translated.
>   
>  -- your friend and  colleague David Frank
>   
>     ----- Original Message ----- 
>    From:    Fritz    Goerling 
>    To: lexicographylist at yahoogroups.com    
>    Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2007 6:40    PM
>    Subject: RE: [Lexicog] Re: When Semantics    Doesn't Matter
>    
> 
>       Sorry, Scott,  the NT was not derived from Greek    but 
written in Greek.
>    Sometimes the Greek    shows a Hebrew substratum. The New 
Testament was 
>    not translated from    Greek either but written in Greek. Paul 
is more known as    the
>    apostle to the    Gentiles.
>     
>    Fritz    Goerling
>     
>             Hayim, I liked your points, point by point. 
> I'm a    little confused though about your reference to the Bible 
> translation. The    New Testament needs differentiation from the 
Old 
> Testament. The New    Testament was derived from Greek, not Hebrew. 
It 
> was clumped together with    the Old Testament, into what modern 
> Christians call "The Bible." Hebrew    (Aramaic language), with 
Hebrew 
> writing being the source text of the Old    Testament (written and 
> spoken by Hebrews) -- was copied, text for text,    point by point, 
> iota by iota........from generation to generation --    assumably 
from 
> the hand of Moses himself. 
> But the New Testament,    largely written by Paul the Apostle to 
> Greek cities and Greek Christians,    was translated from Greek. 
> 
> Scott Nelson
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
>      
>                        
> 
>        
> ---------------------------------
> Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.
>




 
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