query: grammaticalization go/be.in > negation

[Ljuba Veselinova]

Dear David,

In Tamazight of Ayr Ndhir the negator of predications of identity
appears to be composed of the negative particle/prefix ur and a form
of the verb go -idd

(Penchoen, 1973: 63)
a.	ism	uryaz-aḏ	ur-idd	ḥusa
this	man-this	NEG-go	Husa
’This man’s name is not Husa’

b.	ur-idd	llə	b ɛaya
	NEG-go	play	this
	‘This is no game’

I haven't been able to verify this for other varieties of Tamazight.
Generally, it is my impression that this kind of extension is
relatively rare but it may be the case that it just hasn't been
studied properly. Matthew Juge (1998) has a paper on the overlapping
suppletion between the paradigms of ser and ir in Spanish; these verb
share the same suppletive form in the preterite . It's true it is the
affirmative variants of the verbs but still.

Best wishes,

Ljuba

References
Juge, Matthew. 1998. On the Rise of Suppletion in Verbal Paradigms. Ms., BLS 25.
Penchoen, Thomas G. 1973. Tamazight of the Ayt Ndhir. Los Angeles:
Undena Publications.

On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 1:16 PM, Everett, Daniel <DEVERETT at bentley.edu> wrote:
> In Pirahã, David, the relevant construction is:
>  hi-ab-áo-b-á
> it-negative-completive-perfective-remote (out of control of speaker)
>
> hi-ab-a (without aspectual morphology) is used for 'no' or 'didn't'
>
> The former has the sense of 'to have run out' but is very similar in many contexts to 'allgone.'
>
> -- Dan
>
>
> On Jan 31, 2013, at 6:53 AM, Hewitt, Stephen wrote:
>
>> Hello David,
>>
>> In Breton, yes.
>>
>> Aed   eo      toud
>> Gone  is3sg   all
>> "it's all gone"
>> With the same meaning as in English. In French you have to use the verb "partir" = leave, not "aller" = go.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>> Steve Hewitt
>> 30 rue Charles Baudelaire
>> 75012 PARIS
>> France
>> s.hewitt at unesco.org
>> +33/-0 1.45.68.06.08 work
>> +33/-0 6.32.13.79.42 mobile
>> +33/-0 1.46.28.89.16 home
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Discussion List for ALT [mailto:LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of David Gil
>> Sent: 31 January 2013 05:30
>> To: LINGTYP at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG
>> Subject: query: grammaticalization go/be.in > negation
>>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> In English motherese, the expression 'allgone' is often used to express a negative concept involving the disappearance or absence of an entity previously present.
>>
>> I am interested in ascertaining how common or rare it is, cross-linguistically, for a verb of motion (eg. 'go') or location (eg.
>> 'be in') to undergo extension of meaning, or grammaticalization, to express various negative concepts, as in the above 'allgone' example.
>>
>> The reason behind this query is as follows.  In Roon (an Austronesian language of West Papua), the same verb has a range of meanings which includes 'be in' and 'disappear'.  (The logic behind this would seem to be that if something goes or is located somewhere else, then it is no
>> longer here.)   In addition, the stem on which this verb is based is
>> also used to form negative imperatives.  I am currently trying to figure out whether to analyze this in terms of macrofunctionality, polysemy, or accidental homophony, so whether similar patterns are attested cross-linguistically would be of relevance to the choice of analysis.
>>
>> Looking forward to any responses,
>>
>> David
>>
>> --
>> David Gil
>>
>> Department of Linguistics
>> Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology Deutscher Platz 6, D-04103 Leipzig, Germany
>>
>> Telephone: 49-341-3550321 Fax: 49-341-3550119
>> Email: gil at eva.mpg.de
>> Webpage:  http://www.eva.mpg.de/~gil/