7.1641, Sum: Affricates (st>ts) Part 2

The Linguist List linguist at unix.tamu.edu
Thu Nov 21 23:49:57 UTC 1996


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LINGUIST List:  Vol-7-1641. Thu Nov 21 1996. ISSN: 1068-4875. Lines:  196
 
Subject: 7.1641, Sum: Affricates (st>ts) Part 2
 
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1)
Date:  Wed, 20 Nov 1996 16:52:39 EST
From:  szigetva at osiris.elte.hu (Szigetvari Peter)
Subject:  Sum: Affricates (st>ts) Part 2
 
---------------------------------Messages------------------------------------
1)
Date:  Wed, 20 Nov 1996 16:52:39 EST
From:  szigetva at osiris.elte.hu (Szigetvari Peter)
Subject:  Sum: Affricates (st>ts) Part 2
 
 
A number of new responses have arrived to my query on st>ts changes
after I had posted a summary (Vol-7-1502).  Since they all contain
substantial new information, here is the second part of the summary.
 
First the acknowledgements:
David Solnit <dsolnit at i-netaccess.com>
Alice Faber <faber at haskins.yale.edu>
Johanna Nichols <johanna at uclink.berkeley.edu>
Soeren Wichmann <soeren at cphling.dk>
Celso Alvarez Caccamo <lxalvarz at unica.udc.es>
Adam Nadasdy <traditional oral communication>
 
Thank you all.  And now the details:
 
==========DAVID SOLNIT======================================================
>I believe there is consensus that proto-Sino-
>Tibetan *st- and maybe also *sn- became Chinese ts- under certain
>conditions.  The st- form is attested in Written Tibetan and other
>Tibeto-Burman languages.  I'm not up to date on the matter, but one
>reference is
 
>Bodman, Nicholas.  1973.  Some Chinese reflexes of Sino-Tibetan s-
>clusters.  Journal of Chinese Linguistics 1, 383-96.
 
>David Solnit
>Ann Arbor, MI, USA
 
==========ALICE FABER=======================================================
>I noted with interest your summary on Linguist of the responses to your query
>about st>ts changes. At the end of your summary, you remarked on the existence
>of [dz] as a variant pronunciation of _zeta_ [zd]. I'd be a little wary of
>taking this as resulting from a zd>dz change. The letter Phoenician/Canaanite
>prototype for Greek _zeta_, while realized [z] in later Hebrew, Phoenician,
>Aramaic, Arabic, etc., was clearly [dz] at the stage when the Greek alphabet
>developed out of Canaanite/Phoenician prototypes. So, if [dz] occurs instead
>of [zd] in some later dialects, it is most likely an archaism and not an
>innovation.
 
 
>Alice Faber
>Haskins Laboratories
>270 Crown St
>New Haven, CT 06511
>USA
>faber at haskins.yale.edu
 
==========JOHANNA NICHOLS===================================================
>Apparently I missed your posting of a couple of weeks ago, but I read your
>summary on LINGUIST today.  There is a systematic change of *st to /c/
>(i.e. [ts]) in the Daghestanian branch of Nakh-Daghestanian (Northeast
>Caucasian).  The Nakh languages have /st/ while Daghestanian languages have
>/c/ or /s/.  Just a few partial cognate sets to illustrate the
>correspondence:
 
>        Chechen stu, Ingush ust, Batsbi pst'u  'bull, ox':  Andi unso, Lak
>nic, Dargi unc, Agul jacw, etc.
 
>        Chechen-Ingush  D=ust-, Batsbi D=ust'-  'measure' (verb)  ( = marks
>morpheme boundary for gender prefix; D is citation form for gender)  :
>Andi  =ason,   Lak  =uc,  Dargi  unc, Agul  alc
 
>        Chechen  stim,  Ingush  sim  (*st- > s- regularly word-initially)
>'bile'  :  Avar  cim,  Andi  ssim,  Lak  ssi,  Dargu  sume,  Agul  sew /
>seb
 
>        Chechen stien-, Ingush sie-, Batsbi st'en-  oblique stem for 'who'
>:  Avar si- / sundu-, Lak ci / ssa-,  Dargi  ce / ci-  (all these are cited
>as:  nominative / oblique)
 
 
>There are also cognate sets with /c/ in Nakh and /c/ or /s/ in
>Daghestanian, e.g.:
 
>        Chechen cer-g, Ingush car-g, Batsbi car-k'  'tooth'  :  Andi sol,
>Dargi  cula,  Agul  sileb
 
 
>and others.  The big picture is that Nakh distinguishes
>Proto-Nakh-Daghestanian *st from *c, while in Daghestanian the two fall
>together as *c (which has /s/ and /c/ reflexes in fairly regular fashion).
 
>So there you have the change you were looking for.
 
>Best wishes,
 
>Johanna Nichols
 
==========SOEREN WICHMANN===================================================
>in the Mixean languages (a subgroup of the Mixe-Zoquean languages,
>southern Mexico) one finds a correspondence /st/ : /c/ (where c = [ts]).
>In the following schema cY = c + hachek, E = a high (close) e, e = a low
>e. /st/ is a cluster, /c/ a phoneme. Sequences /cc/ are geminates which I
>analyze as single segments. V. = middle length, V: extra-long.
 
>Language abbreviations: SaP = Sayula Popoluca, NHM = North Highland Mixe,
>SHM = South Highland Mixe, MM = Midland Mixe, LM = Lowland Mixe.
 
>SaP	NHM	SHM	MM	LM
>kahcay	kast				`hammock'
>	cEhst		cehcY	cehcYk	`drum'
>	kast	kahc	kacc	kacc	`painted'
>	cu:hst		cuc	cu.cc	`moss'
 
>This schema is reproduced from my book _The relationship among the
>Mixe-Zoquean languages of Mexico_ (Salt Lake City: University of Utah
>Press, 1995), p. 171. Therein I suggest that the -st- clusters in NHM
>derive from original -cc-. This would be the opposite phenomena of what
>you are interested in. I chose to suggest that direction of change because
>the majority of languages have /c/ or /cc/ and only NHM /st/. Conceivably
>one could posit the opposite direction of change, but the main problem
>here is the SaP form /kahcay/. NHM, SHM, MM, and LM form a subgroup of
>Mixean and SaP another subgroup. So if the development were /st/ > /c/ we
>would have SaP on the one hand and SHM, MM, and LM on the other undergoing
>the same development independently. But it is a faint possibility. And
>another faint possibility is that /kahcay/ is not related to /kahst/ at
>all.
 
>In conclusion, the data document a diachronic change */c/ [ts] > /st/. The
>opposite direction of change */st/ > /c/ is a possible alternative
>explanation, but it seems less likely and certainly more costly.
 
>Best regards,
 
>Soeren Wichmann
 
>Ass. adjunct prof.
>Dept. of American Indian Languages and Cultures
>University of Copenhagen
>Njalsgade 80
>DK-2300  Copenhagen S
>Denmark
 
>Tlf. 31 23 41 33 (home)
>     35 32 89 69 (work)
>Fax  35 32 89 56
 
==========CELSO ALVAREZ CA'CCAMO============================================
>I missed your original posting in LINGUIST about affricates, but this may
>be related.  In the Galizan dialects of Portuguese, the [st] > [tS]
>(palatal affricate) change was systematic in 2nd person past verb forms
>from Latin: Latin amaste, partiste > Galiza Portuguese amache(s),
>partiche(s).  Nowadays these are widespread forms in Galiza, besides
>standard Port. amaste, partiste.  I can't think of any related phenomenon
>synchronically.
 
>  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>  Celso Alvarez Caccamo               Tel. 34-81-130457, ext. 1888
>  Depto. de Lingumstica Geral                    FAX  34-81-132459
>       e Teoria da Literatura              e-mail: lxalvarz at udc.es
>  Universidade da Corunha             http://www.udc.es/dep/lx/cac
>  15007 A Corunha, Galiza (Espanha)
>  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 
==========ADAM NADASDY======================================================
Tells me that the Hungarian word _kocka_ [kotska] `cube, dice' comes from
Slavic, say, Slovakian _kost+ka_ `bone+DIMINUTIVE, dice' and is thus another
instance of the st>ts change.
 
 ===========================================================================
Peter Szigetvari
E\"otv\"os Lor\'and University (ELTE)
Budapest, Hungary
szigetva at osiris.elte.hu
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