15.2360, Media: Piraha Numbers/Counting

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Mon Aug 23 18:57:49 UTC 2004

LINGUIST List:  Vol-15-2360. Mon Aug 23 2004. ISSN: 1068-4875.

Subject: 15.2360, Media: Piraha Numbers/Counting

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Date:  Fri, 20 Aug 2004 10:09:10 -0400 (EDT)
From:  Daniel Everett <dan.everett at man.ac.uk>
Subject:  Piraha numbers, counting, and culture

-------------------------------- Message 1 -------------------------------

Date:  Fri, 20 Aug 2004 10:09:10 -0400 (EDT)
From:  Daniel Everett <dan.everett at man.ac.uk>
Subject:  Piraha numbers, counting, and culture

Many readers of this list may have seen today's CNN report on the
Science article which was published yesterday on Piraha
The Science article reports on research carried out by Peter Gordon,
along with me and my wife, Keren, several years ago to test my view
that Piraha had no counting. Gordon confirmed that indeed Pirahas have
no concept of counting and further refined my original ideas on the

Gordon's conclusion in Science is that Piraha offers support for the
Whorf hypothesis. While I believe that this is plausible, my own view
is that the lack of counting must be seen in the larger cultural
context and that when thus viewed in conjunction with the lack of
color words, the lack of embedding, the simplest kinship system ever
documented, and various other characteristics, a different,
non-Whorfian picture emerges. The basic conclusion I reach is that
culture constrains grammar in ways many of us have not previously
imagined. I take this to be an argument against, for example,
Universal Grammar, at least the more widely-accepted versions of it.

Anyone interested in reading on this further (and the Piraha case does
seem to be getting a lot of attention from various countries, based on
my email folder this morning), my paper "Cultural Constraints on
Grammar in Piraha", currently under review, is available from my
University of Manchester website: at

-  Dan Everett

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