LL-L: "Names" [E] LOWLANDS-L, 11.AUG.1999 (04)

Wed Aug 11 18:44:17 UTC 1999

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From: Sandy Fleming [sandy at fleimin.demon.co.uk]
Subject: LL-L: "Names" (was "Etymology") [E] LOWLANDS-L, 11.AUG.1999 (02)

> From: $ Elsie Zinsser [ezinsser at simpross.co.za]
> Subject: RE: LL-L: "Robinhood" [E] LOWLANDS-L, 08.AUG.1999 (03)
>
> Haai, Laaglanders!
>
> John Feather johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk
> <mailto:johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk>  asked whether anybody
> could suggest why Americans pronounce 'Robin 'Hood as 'Robinhood?
>
> I'm not sure whether this is generally done by every American, but it's
> possible that English speakers perceive _'Robin 'Hood_ as a real person
> and therefore accentuate his name and surname as two separate entities,
> like one would say _'John 'Brown_ . Perhaps American speakers see the
> mythical figure in toto and hence _Robinhood_?

I could suggest a couple of theories about this:

1. Americans think of "Robin" as a woman's name while the British think of
it as a man's name. Hence some Americans might fail to parse Robinhood into
two components as would come naturally to Brits, since Robin Hood is a man.

2. Was the British 1960's TV series "Robin Hood" popular in America? If this
was the first many Americans heard of Robin Hood they may have picked the
name up from the theme tune, "Robin Hood, Robin Hood, riding through the
glen &c". Since this was sung in 4/4 time, the third syllable may have been
perceived as unstressed (though sung longer than each of the other two).

Don't know though - there are traditional Appalachian stories about Robin
Hood, aren't there? How do _those_ storytellers pronounce it?

Sandy Fleming
http:\\www.fleimin.demon.co.uk

----------

From: Lee [glent at troi.csw.net]
Subject: LL-L: "Names" (was "Etymology") [E] LOWLANDS-L, 11.AUG.1999 (02)

>From: $ Elsie Zinsser [ezinsser at simpross.co.za]
>Subject: RE: LL-L: "Robinhood" [E] LOWLANDS-L, 08.AUG.1999 (03)
>
>Haai, Laaglanders!
>
>John Feather johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk
><mailto:johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk>  asked whether anybody
>could suggest why Americans pronounce 'Robin 'Hood as 'Robinhood?
>
>I'm not sure whether this is generally done by every American, but it's
>possible that English speakers perceive _'Robin 'Hood_ as a real person
>and therefore accentuate his name and surname as two separate entities,
>like one would say _'John 'Brown_ . Perhaps American speakers see the
>mythical figure in toto and hence _Robinhood_?
>
>Possibly unrelated to the above: My sister had great difficulties to
>make people in the USA (from San Fransisco to Chicago and now in
>Providence) to understand the idea of a two-part surname like _Van
>Niekerk_. To most it's simply _Vanikirk_!  Surely the Van Gogh, Van
>Buuren or Van Wyck-concepts are not too foreign? Or is it?
>
>Regards!
>
>Elsie Zinsser
>
Hey Lowlanders,

I know that when I'm asked my name I will simply say 'Douglas Swicegood',
without a pause between first name and surname.  We Americans do realize a
difference between the first name 'Robin' and the surname 'Hood.' Whether
he's real or not, I don't know (I've seen so mush stuff on biograph and
Discovery that I don't know what is what!!)  It's just that in speaking
Robin Hood we tend to run the first and last together!  As was stated above
'Robinhood.'  Again, in writing about 'Robinhood' (as in school reports and
such) his name is always written out as Robin Hood.  I think that most all
Americans realize that it should be written as Robin Hood, but we speak it
as Robinhood.  As speakers of the English language (some will laugh at this)
we, for the most part, just don't take our time in spacing spoken words
correctly--we zoom through them!  I guess we just don't have the patience to
get the spoken word out of our mouths properly.  But you can blame thaim
dadburn westerners more than us southerners, 'cause we southerners talk with
a more relaxed rhythm (right Richard?).  Guess that's 'cause a eatin too
much watermelon and sittin under shade trees!!

Dooglas o Schweissguth

----------

From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Names

Dear Lowlanders,

As regards the American pronunciation of _Robin Hood_ as _Robinhood_ (i.e., with
primary stress on the first syllable of _Robin_ instead of on _Hood_), it
appears to me to be the same phenomenon as that of _Santa Claus_ being
pronounced as _Santaclaus_ or _Santiclaus_ (with primary stress on _San..._).  I
guess these have come to be reanalyzed as single names and thus stressed as
such, along the lines of _(Little Red) Riding Hood_ and compound nouns such as
_living room_ or _buying spree_.

Regards,

Reinhard/Ron

----------

From: David Rachlin [rachlin at mediaone.net]
Subject: LL-L: "Names" (was "Etymology") [E] LOWLANDS-L, 11.AUG.1999 (02)

> Haai, Laaglanders!
>
> John Feather johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk  asked whether anybody
> could suggest why Americans pronounce 'Robin 'Hood as 'Robinhood?
>
>
> Possibly unrelated to the above: My sister had great difficulties to
> make people in the USA (from San Fransisco to Chicago and now in
> Providence) to understand the idea of a two-part surname like _Van
> Niekerk_. To most it's simply _Vanikirk_!  Surely the Van Gogh, Van
> Buuren or Van Wyck-concepts are not too foreign? Or is it?
>
> Regards!
>
> Elsie Zinsser

Dear Elsie Zinsser,

Your question about syllable stress on Robin Hood and names with van opens up
a can of worms. The insinuation that we Americans can't cope with foreign
concepts is hardly a linguistic comment. Americans usually stress the family
name ( and falling intonation), with secondary stress on the first.This is not
the case when we say 'RobinHood. Like many legendary figures,it is pronounced
with initial stress and thought of as a single concept. Compare: Goldilocks,
Hercules, Tarzan, Churchill, etc. Also, no one here in their right mind would
stress the van in van Gogh, etc. as many British do, you who tend to anglicize
foreign words more readily than we.

"David 'Rachlin

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