LL-L: "Linguistic zones" [E] LOWLANDS-L, 18.AUG.1999 (02)

[Sandy Fleming]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 18.AUG.1999 (02) * ISSN 1089-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: R.Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: "Linguistic zones"

Dear Lowlanders,

I have received a request for information and am passing it along to you
below.

I may be misunderstanding the entire thing.  Anyway, here is my initial
response:

<quote>
1. Deutschland would refer to the region where Hochdeutsch is either the
primary
or the conventional auxiliary language. This would apply not only to the
modern
state of Deutschland, but to adjacent areas as well. But it would also
overlap
with smaller regions with their own primary languages, including many that
have
been the subject of your study.
</quote>

I don't think so.  Those who consider Germany as consisting of any more than
today's country of Germany are an almost extinct breed.  I don't think that
there are many Germans who would include Austria, Liechtenstein,
Germanic-speaking Switzerland, Alsace-Lorraine, Eastern Belgium and
Luxembourg
in "Germany."

"Neddersassen" for a language zone is not possible, because it means the
same as
"Lower Saxony" (German "Niedersachsen") which is a specific German state
that
makes up only a part of the Low-Saxon-speaking region.  There are some
people or
groups that advocate some type of regional consciousness, but this is not
generally being taken seriously.  As far as I can tell, despite traditional
"north vs south" consciousness in Germany, there is no actual movement that
links the extent of the Low Saxon (Low German) language with an effort to
achieve regional consciousness.  There is only the vague notion of "Northern
Germany."  This most certainly stops at the Netherlands border.  Most North
Germans are not even aware that their original regional language is used on
the
other side of the border.

Regards,

Reinhard/Ron

From: The Stewardship Project [general at the-stewardship.org]
To: sassisch at geocities.com
Subject: germanic place names

1999 August 17

I found and read your web site, and thought you might be able to help with a
project of mine. I am compiling a list of linguistic zones of the world, and
specifically looking for native geographical designations. The generic
question
I ask is this: for any linguistic community (defined by the usual standard
of
mutual intelligibility) living in a contiguous region, by what name would
the
speakers refer to the entire region? This must be the name of a place, not a
people; it must be in the language itself, of course; and it must not be
subject
to traditional regional divisions or modern political divisions, but rather
apply to the full contiguous area occupied by the population using the
language.
I leave it to specialists to wrangle over mutual intelligibility. But where
one
of them identifies a "language", I would look for the locative name that
goes
with it. In the Germanic field, there are many complicating factors, but I
will
relate to you my current information.

1. Deutschland would refer to the region where Hochdeutsch is either the
primary
or the conventional auxiliary language. This would apply not only to the
modern
state of Deutschland, but to adjacent areas as well. But it would also
overlap
with smaller regions with their own primary languages, including many that
have
been the subject of your study.

2. Nederland would refer to the bulk of the state of Nederland and to the
northern portion of België as well; but insofar as there are considered to
be
two major languages in the area, the zones would be Nederland and Vlaanderen
respectively.

3. I have three names for Frisian zones: Fryslân, Seelterlound, and
Fraschlönj.

4. There would be six northern Germanic zones, of which four are Danmark,
Sverige, Skàonelann ( or Skåûnelann), and Ísland. The other two are
overlapping
subdivisions of Norge for which I do not have distinct geographical names.

5. Scotland would refer to the zone of Scots (the Gaelic region would be
Alba);
political disagreements aside, the natural name for the zone of standard
English
on Great Britain is England (here too there would be overlap in many
places).

6. The remaining attested names I have are Lëtzebuerg and Suid-Afrika.
Anything else would be a matter of conjecture and back-formation. I cannot
speak
to the mutual unintelligibility or the native designation of the following:
*Allemanie, *Bayern-Österreich, *Mainfrankland, *Rheinfrankland, *Frankland,
*Neddersassen, *Nedderdüütshland.

That should give you a rough idea of my aims. Any information relating to
this
project which you could supply would be most appreciated.

O.T. Ford

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