LL-L: "Administrativa" LOWLANDS-L, 28.DEC.1999 (01) [E]

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From: Richard L Turner [fr.andreas at juno.com]
Subject: LL-L: "Administrativa" (was "Language varieties") LOWLANDS-L,
26.DEC.1999 (02) [E]

Dear Ron,

Perhaps these questions will help us return to comparative culture.

1. I wonder, was one of the respondants European and the other North
American?
2. Would I miss my guess that the person who reacted to the racial
content of the riddle was North American? Surely the dialect involved is
one spoken only on this side of the ocean.
3. If the response to the perceived ridicule was indeed European, does
religion take a larger role in post-modern Europe than in post-modern
North America?

These questions, I think, are more germaine to our discussion.

Happy St Stephen's Day!
+Fr Andreas Turner.

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From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Administrativa

+Fr Andreas asked:

> 1. I wonder, was one of the respondants European and the other North
> American?
> 2. Would I miss my guess that the person who reacted to the racial
> content of the riddle was North American? Surely the dialect involved is
> one spoken only on this side of the ocean.
> 3. If the response to the perceived ridicule was indeed European, does
> religion take a larger role in post-modern Europe than in post-modern
> North America?

For whatever it's worth, Respondant 1 ("religion") is non-Anglo-Celtic
European (Polish), and Respondant 2 ("race") is North American.

Best regards,

Reinhard/Ron

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From: john feather [johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk]
Subject: Language varieties

I must apologise to you for the trouble my little attempt at levity caused,
and to anybody whom I truly offended. The fact that it was criticised on two
completely different grounds suggests to me that some people are very easily
offended.

I should like to comment on the two criticisms, starting with the accusation
of racism. It seems to me that American Black English is a legitimate
"variety" of the English language, and it was on that basis that I thought
the joke might be suitable for this forum. It could be that some people have
not understood it. "Ho! Ho! Ho!" is, of course, Santa's traditional
greeting. In American Black English "ho" is a form of "whore". The speaker
therefore has (for plausibility) to be an African American, and his use of
the word does not show him in a bad light: he is being witty, not stupid.  I
therefore see no grounds for claiming that there is racism in the joke.

As to the charge of profaning a Christian festival, I think we have a
cultural problem. In the English-speaking world increasing secularisation
has meant that religion has become the subject of jokes. Fifty years ago the
very basic Nativity joke "It's a boy" would have been thought blasphemous in
Britain. The later (feminist or paradoxical) "It's a girl" would have been
impossible much later. Nowadays things like this (and worse) which refer
directly to Christ's Divinity appear on Christmas cards quite freely. I
would also refer Monty Python fans out there to the film "The Life of
Brian". It seems to me in this cultural context to be over-sensitive to
object to an association of the word "prostitute" with a reference to the
gifts of the Magi on religious grounds. If  by chance I have exposed a
cultural difference between the Anglo-Saxon and Polish spheres then the
experience has been educational.

I  thought that this light-hearted interpretation of "language varieties"
might be appropriate during the midwinter festivities, and I guess you took
the same view. I promise to be totally serious for the whole of the new
millennium - not.

John Feather johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk

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