LL-L: "Pronouns" [E] LOWLANDS-L, 15.JUN.1999 (03)

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From: "john feather" <johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Pronouns

John Tait and Sandy

You were discussing "c'est moi". Its history is given in Grevisse's "Le bon
usage", Para 809. There was never a form "c'est je". Originally there was
"ce suis je", with "je" the subject and "ce" the complement. The 3rd sing
form "ce est il" had an emphatic form "ce est lui", which gave "c'est lui"
(with shift of stress to "lui") and hence a model for "c'est moi", etc.

There's a lot more in Grevisse about "moi", etc, as a subject. Sometimes the
usage is emphatic, eg "moi si" contradicting a negative assertion ("Nobody
speaks to him." "I do!") but a usage very relevant to the present discussion
is the obligatory use in a compound subject (Para 471 Point 5). Harrap New
Standard F-E Dictionary also cites "Vous et moi nous irons ensemble".

In colloquial Standard English (is that right?) we have "Him and me went to
the pictures" but not "Me went to the pictures". I think the Scots example
originally quoted was compound. There is also the (possibly hyper-correct)
form "He saw you and I", but not "He saw I". (Actually I think Barry
Humphries the comedian uses the latter as a hypercorrect Australian form, so
it may grow on us.)

Having got to this point I suddenly realise that in Caribbean English "me"
can be a subject. Ho hum.

Is Oxfordshire in the West Country? The Oxford "Atlas of English Dialects"
(Map 33) has an isogloss for nom. sing. "you/thee" running through it.

John Feather
johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk

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