LL-L: "Language varieties" LOWLANDS-L, 30.NOV.1999 (01) [E]

Tue Nov 30 15:42:01 UTC 1999

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 30.NOV.1999 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: Floor van Lamoen [f.v.lamoen at wxs.nl]
Subject:  LL-L: "Language varieties" LOWLANDS-L, 29.NOV.1999 (02) [E]

Ron wrote:
<...>
> I thought some of you might be interested in another Low Franconian language

> sample.  The one I am offering you here is seasonal, though it is a bit
> belated.  It is a song children sing on Martinmas, on November 11, when they
go
> from house to house to collect "donations."  This is a custom of an area
> including much of Belgium and the Netherlands as well as Luxemburg and the
Lower
> Rhine area of Germany.  However, there are similarities between this custom
and
> "Walking the Lantern" around Martinmas and "trick-or-treating" on New year's
Eve
> in other parts of Northern Germany.  We discussed all this on Lowlands-L a
> couple of years ago.  Or was it last year?
>
<...>

Dear Ron,

Hereby I will quote a related phrase from a song, posted two years ago
in a discussion on "St. Maarten", as it was submitted by Martijn Lens:

Sintermertes veugelke
H`ed un roe"d keugelke
H`ed un roe"d st`ertje
Hopsa Sintermerte

Seems like the kids with their `Lantern' like short songs!

Best regards,
Floor.

----------

From: Henno Brandsma [Henno.Brandsma at phil.uu.nl]
Subject:  LL-L: "Language varieties" LOWLANDS-L, 29.NOV.1999 (02) [E]

> Hammel, Hans-Dieter (1967), _Bedeutung, Wortschatz und Weltbild der
> niederfränkischen Mundart von Mülheim an der Ruhr_; doctoral dissertation,
> Freiburg im Breisgau: Albert-Ludwigs-Universität.
>
> (Substitutions: ë for superscript e (schwa), ä for superscript a, ê for ä)
>
> Sintër-Mêêtës-Liit
>
> sintër mêêtës füüjëlschë
> hêt sun ruuät kapüüjëlschë,
> chëfloojë, chëstoowë
> wiit, wiit ööwër dë riin,
> wuu dë fêtë fêrkës siin.
> chut frou, cheeft us wat,
> aal dë hünnerkës leejë wat!
> boowën in dë fêêschë
> hangë dë langë wööstë,
> cheeft us dë langë,
> loot dë kotë hangë,
> loot us nit su lang hii stoon,
> wêi müütë ën hüüskë widër choon,
> hii fan dên noo êêsë,
> hoolën ën fêtëm blêêsë,
> hiifüür doofüür,
> füür dë riikë koupmansdüür.
>
>    Hier wohnt ein reicher Mann,
>    der uns was geben kann;
>    viel soll er geben,
>    lang soll er leben,
>    selig soll er sterben,
>    das Himmelreich erwerben (~ ererben).

This refrain is similar to what we used to sing during
"Sinte Maarten" : Hier woont een rijk man, die wat geven kan,
veel kans ons niet schelen, alles zullen we delen, suikergoed en marsepein,
o wat zal dat lekker zijn. Well, at least the beginning is similar.

Can "erwerben" not be correct? It seems related to Dutch "verwerven"
(to obtain), and makes perfect sense in this context.
Is it incorrect German? In that case it might either be old-fashioned
or an interference from their own dialect, which might have a word
similar to "verwerven", being Low Franconian.

> dë maat dii löp dë trapën ërop,
> pak waal in de nöötësak,
> pak waal nit dërneewë,
> sal us waal wat cheewë.
> chif wat, haul wat,
> teejën't joor wiër wat.
> sintër mêêtës stupstat
> schmiit ën apël duar dat chat,
> schmiit ën nit të wiit
> süs fêlt hë in dên driit (~ diik)
> schmiit ën nit të hat,
> süs fêlt hë in dat chat.
> muus, muus, kum ëruut,
> chif us êpël un nöötë,
> êpël un nöötë siint su chut
> füür dên aulen patsfut.

_Driit_ again makes perfect sense to me.
I've seen similar words in other dialects, and they
all mean "mud" or similar substance.
I think it is related to Westerlauwer Frisian _dridze_,
which has the same meaning.
So why change it to _diik_?

Just some thoughts..

Groetnis,

Henno

----------

From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject:  Language varieties

Dear Henno,

You asked:

> Can "erwerben" not be correct? It seems related to Dutch "verwerven"
> (to obtain), and makes perfect sense in this context.
> Is it incorrect German? In that case it might either be old-fashioned
> or an interference from their own dialect, which might have a word
> similar to "verwerven", being Low Franconian.

The way the source presented it was to show _erwerben_ 'obtain', 'receive' as
the usual and _ererben_ 'inherite' as a less common variant, hence my
representations "...

> ... erwerben (~ ererben)
> ... receive (~ inherit)

"~" stands for "in variation with," and the parentheses show the variant as
"minor."  It was not meant to be a correction.

> _Driit_ again makes perfect sense to me.
> I've seen similar words in other dialects, and they
> all mean "mud" or similar substance.
> I think it is related to Westerlauwer Frisian _dridze_,
> which has the same meaning.
> So why change it to _diik_?

Ditto.  _Driit_ in the most common version, and _diik_ in the less common one,
hence ...

> süs fêlt hë in dên driit (~ diik)
> or it will fall in the muck (~ pond)

I hope this dleared it up.

Best regards,

Reinhard/Ron

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