LL-L: "Etymolgy" LOWLANDS-L, 15.OCT.1999 (03) [E]

Fri Oct 15 15:24:37 UTC 1999

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From: Roger P. G. Thijs [roger.thijs at village.uunet.be]
Subject: LL-L: "Etymology" LOWLANDS-L, 14.OCT.1999 (01) [E]

> From: Jan Ter Ellen [Jan at spherical-group.demon.co.uk]
> Subject: Etymology (Granaat)
>
> Related to the discussion about _Granaat_ and _garnaal_.
>
> A Belgium friend told me that there is an old Walloon word _guernette_,
> which means the same as the more common _crevette_.  I have not beem
> able to verify this, as my fairly basic French dictionary doesn't show
> it.

1. wallon liégeois (Haust, vol 1, French- liégeois)):
   crevette:    grènåte, guèrnåte
2.id (Haust, vol. 2, liégeois-French)
   grènåte, guèrn-: crevette (Flam. gernaart, néerl. garnaal)
3. Ouest-Wallon (Bal, vol 2)
  guèrnôte (Courcelles, Monceau-sur-Sambre, Thiméon): crevette

I case somebody wants to get a rapid and affordable introduction into
walloon, there is now a little Assimil that, I guess, is distributed
world-wide: Guy Fontaine, Assimil évasion, Le wallon de poche (Liège, Namur,
Charleroi), Assimil Benelux, Brussels, 1999, ISBN 90-74996-32-9, 258 pp.
pocket size (size and set-up similar to the traveller's classical  "How do
you say in Bongobongo").

In (real) Flemish:
4. France, Bray-Dunes, (as to:: Marteel):
 garnaeze
5. Roeselare (as to: Clinckemaillie):
 gêirnaort
    means: 1 garnaal, 2. spotnaam voor kleine schrale man
6. Poeringe (as to: Tillie)
 En e so veele zin lik _chèrnoars__  poèt'n
 Hij heeft zoveel zinnen lijk garnalepoten (Hij verandert veel van mening)

In my Limburgish from Vliermaal (Belgian Limburg) we used: __krevette__

Here in the shops, I live in the Antwerp area, one distinguishes between:
- grijze garnalen (tasty little gray shrimps from the North see, pealed in
Morocco)
- roze garnalen (tasteless little white/pink shrimps, I think from
Bangla-Desh)
- reuzegarnalen (big size white/pink shrips, size similar to what is served
as "räkor" in Sweden)

I also have a question about snails (Dutch "slakken").
We say:
- __karakollen__, for the white ones, that are sold here (in a cup of hot
snail soup) in Antwerp on the market and in shopping streets
- __escargots__, for the black ones, that are served in restaurants with hot
garlic butter.
What vocabulary do you people use?

Regards,
Roger

---------

From: Henno Brandsma [Henno.Brandsma at phil.uu.nl]
Subject: LL-L: "Etymology" LOWLANDS-L, 13.OCT.1999 (01) [D/E]

Ron skreau:

> Other parts of Sleswig-Holsteen/Schleswig-Holstein:
> _Porr_ [phOV] ~ _Purr_ [phUV] (f., pl. _Porren_ [phOVn] ~ _Purren_ [phUVn])

Interesting this: The Westerlauwer Frisian word for "shrimp" is
_poarre_ [pwar@] (with Modern Frisian breaking), and I have necer seen
a cognate in another Germanic language. But IIRC there is a paper on
the word somewhere in an old "Us wurk", but where..?

This looks like it might be a Frisian substratum word? The Low Saxon
of Sleswig-Holstein has quite a few North Frisian substratum words, a
thesis was even written on them, I forgot by whom.

> Eastern Friesland and Ollenborg/Oldenburg:
> _Granaat_ ~ _Granoot_ [gra'nQ:t] ~ [grQ'nQ:t] (m., pl. _Granaten_ ~
_Granoten_
> [gra'nQ:t=n] ~ [grQ'nQ:t=n])
>
> Elsewhere:
> _Krabbe_ ['krabe]~['krab@] ~ _Krabb_ [krab]~[krap] (f., pl. _Krabben_
> ['krab=m])

WF _kraab_ has the same meaning as Dutch _krab_ (crab)
WF _kreeft_ = Dutch _kreeft_ (lobster)

Groetnis,

Henno

----------

From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Etymology

Henno wrote above:

> > Other parts of Sleswig-Holsteen/Schleswig-Holstein:
> > _Porr_ [phOV] ~ _Purr_ [phUV] (f., pl. _Porren_ [phOVn] ~ _Purren_
[phUVn])
>
> Interesting this: The Westerlauwer Frisian word for "shrimp" is
> _poarre_ [pwar@] (with Modern Frisian breaking), and I have necer seen
> a cognate in another Germanic language. But IIRC there is a paper on
> the word somewhere in an old "Us wurk", but where..?
>
> This looks like it might be a Frisian substratum word? The Low Saxon
> of Sleswig-Holstein has quite a few North Frisian substratum words, a
> thesis was even written on them, I forgot by whom.

I am assuming that _Purr_ ~ _Porr_ is a North Frisian loan, Henno, unless
someone convinces me otherwise.  Though perhaps not quite as apparently as
those of Eastern Friesland, language and culture of
Slesvig-Holsteen/Schleswig-Holstein shows numerous signs of Frisian influence,
of course mostly in the western coastal regions (and what is *not* coastal in
that state?).  Frisian language and culture is now relegated to a small region
on the northwestern coast and on the northern islands off that coast.
However, as you know, the Frisian-speaking area was once much larger, reaching
almost or actually as far south as to the mouth of River Elv/Elbe/Laba and as
far north as into what is now Danish Jutland.

Of course, Slesvig-Holsteen/Schleswig-Holstein is very "exciting" when it
comes to multi-cultural and multi-lingual situations and mutual influences,
and it is being seen by many as somewhat of a European model for language
policy making.  The following languages coexist and often mingle in that state
(which has been tossed back and forth between Danish and German power):
German, Low Saxon (Low German), a number of North Frisian varieties, Danish,
and Jutish (if you go as far as counting Jutish separately, which some people
do).  German, Danish, Low Saxon and Frisian have official status, and I am
told Jutish is also spoken, written and occasionally broadcast.  We ought not
forget either that especially some southeastern regions (in Holstein) have
West Slavic (Polabian, Pomeranian) heritage as well.  (The city names Eutin
and Lübeck, for instance, are Slavic-derived.)

Best regards,

Reinhard/Ron

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