LL-L: "Double negative" [E] LOWLANDS-L, 14.SEP.1999 (05)

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From: Roger P. G. Thijs [roger.thijs at village.uunet.be]
Subject: LL-L: "Double negative" [E] LOWLANDS-L, 14.SEP.1999 (04)

> From: wim kotze [wimkotze at hotmail.com]
> Subject: Afrikaans double negative
> Question : does the double negative occur in any of the European lowland
> dialects ? I once saw it explained in a Museum that it does occur in some
> Dutch dialects.

Some occurencies:
1. In (West) Flemish
2. In Old Dutch
3. In Brabantish

1. In (West) Flemish

(West) Flemish from Bray-Dunes (Bray Duunen) in France:
--- quote ---
Ze _en_ komt _niet
Deurwynne _en_ komt ze _niet_?
Ze _en_ werken vandage _niet_
Ze _en_ komen _nooit_
D'haezen _en_ maken _gein_ nesten
Me moeder _en_ kopt _nooit_ _gein_ butter
De scholejoungens _en_ leeren nuldere lessen _niet_ meer.
--- quoted p. 377 from J.L. Marteel, Cours de Flamand, Miroirs & Het
Reuzekoor, Condé-sur-l'Escaut, 1992, ISBN 2-84003-005-5.---

Literary (West) Flemish from the Brugge-Roeselare area
--- quote ---
Het westen, rood van van goude,
 voorspelt een' schoonen dag,
zoo elk, gesteund op de oude
 weërwijsheid, hopen mag.
Nochtans _en_ wilt met allen
 _niet_ voortgaan op den schijn
die rechte staat kan vallen,
 't kan morgen winter zijn! (G. Gezelle, 1890)
--- quoted p. 226 from, Boets, Guido Gezelle bloemlezing, 1993, Coda,
Antwerpen, ISBN 90-5232-078-0 ---

2. Old Dutch (Brabant area)
--- quote ---
Dat ik leve, waartoe es 't goed?
Ik _en_ hadde _nooit_ geval,
_noch_ _nimmermeer_ _en_ zal.
Waarmede zal ik mij verweren?
Ik _en_ prijze mijn lijf _niet_ twee peren
--- lines 436-440 from H. Slings, Karel en Elegast, Amsterdam University
Press, 1997, ISBN 90-5356-245-1 ---

3. Brabantish (not general, but in the Aarschot area)
Ik heb _niemand_  _niet_ gezien _niet_
Daar zal _niemand_ _niet_ komen _nie_
Na acht uur laten de gendarmen hier _niemand_ _niet_ meer passeren _nie_.
Die oude vent is nog _nooit_ _niet_ ziek geweest _nie_.
Hij wil _geen_ soep _niet_ meer eten _nie_.
_Neen_, de deur is _niet_ toe _nie_.
Is dat _niet_ waar _nie_.
--- randomly quoted from the chapter "De expliciete ontkenning nie(t) aan
het einde van de zin in het Zuidnederlands en het Afrikaans", p. 433-477 of
vol I of Dr. J. L. Pauwels, "Het dialect van Aarschot en omstreken", 1958,
Belgisch Interuniversitair Centrum voor Neerlandistiek. (no ISBN nr.) ---

Regards,
Roger

----------

From: Ian James Parsley [parsley at highbury.fsnet.co.uk]
Subject: LL-L: "Double negative" [E] LOWLANDS-L, 14.SEP.1999 (04)

The "double negative" certainly exists in Ulster-Scots. It is generally used
to emphasize a negation, though it is occasionally almost obligatory (e.g.
"naeboadie cudna be obeyan", where the 'na' negative particle follows an
already negative subject). However a construction such as that in Afrikaans
would not sound Scots to me.

Maybe others on the list would no more about Middle German (both High and
Low) than me, but I know double negatives were common in many MHG and MLG
texts (where the particle "en" or "ne" preceded the verb, which was then
followed by "nicht" or "niet"). Most MHG texts are poems, so very often
omission or insertion of such particles was done merely to suit the meter.
But others would know more about it that me, I'm sure...
-------------------------------
Ian James Parsley
http://www.gcty.com/parsleyij
"JOY - Jesus, Others, You"
REPLY NOT WORK? TRY:
parsleyij at hotmail.com

----------

From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Double negative

The double negative _... en ... niet/nich ..._, still used in certain Dutch
dialects (see Roger's posting above), can also be found in some written
varieties of Middle Low Saxon (Low German).

Of course, outside Germanic there are cases such as French (Romance) negation
_... ne ... pas ..._ and Russian (Slavic) constructions like _... nichego
(nichevo) ... ne ..._ "... nothing ... not ...".

Regards,

Reinhard/Ron

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