LL-L: "Standardization" LOWLANDS-L, 14.AUG.2000 (01) [E]

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From: Henry Pijffers [hpijffers at home.nl]
Subject: LL-L: "Standardization" LOWLANDS-L, 13.AUG.2000 (05) [E]

John hef schreven:
>
>So Henry seems to be making distinctions that you don't. Doesn't that
>suggest that some of the distinctions are "fine"?
>
I've given it a little more thought. The words that I marked with (14), for

example "wark" (work) and "kark" (church) have a sound that goes from
a short "o" to a short "a", and the latter part of the diphtong is also
stressed
(the tone of the voice raises when going to the "a"-part). In words I
marked
with (15) ("schaap" (sheep), "avend" (evening)) however, the sound doesn't
change to a short "a", but is lengthed instead, so you get some sort of a
superlength short "o". Words I marked with 16 ("paal" (pole), "maand"
(month)) don't change either, but are pronounced with a lower voice.

The same goes for the difference between "dood" (dead/death), marked
with (11), and "school(e)" (school), marked with (17). It's both a long
"oo".
The one in "dood" raises in tone just like in "wark" and "kark" (without
changing to /a/). "school(e)" on the other hand, doesn't have a change in
intonation and is pronounced in a much lower voice.

Some words I can add to the list of words marked with (17):

koo (cow)
grooten (greetings)
doon (to do) (ik doo, ie doot, he doet (döt), wie doot)
(groot)moo ((grand)mother, "(grand)ma")

All these words might be written with "ou" as well, because that signifies
the different phoneme, however Ron writes "droum" as well, but that
has a Dutch "eu", or German "öö", and not the low "oo" as in (17). So I've
reverted to writing just "oo". Any bright ideas on this?

grooten,
Henry

----------

From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Standardization

Henry,

That's a rather complex set of sounds you described there, involving tone.
I hardly think that they are all separate phoneme, though.  I think we need
a bit of time to mull it ove.

> Some words I can add to the list of words marked with (17):
>
> koo (cow)

kou [koU]

> grooten (greetings)

groyten [gr{oe}Ytn]

> doon (to do) (ik doo, ie doot, he doet (döt), wie doot)

doun [doUn] ( ik dou [?Ik doU], duu daist [du: da.Is(t)], hei/sei/dat dait
[hE.I/zE.I/dat da.It], wie/jie/sei dout [vi:/ji:/zEI doUt])

> (groot)moo ((grand)mother, "(grand)ma")

(groot-)mouder [('gro:t)'moUdA] ~ [('gro.U:t)'moUdA] ~ (groot-)mudder
[('gro:t)'mUdA] ~ [('gro.U:t)'mUdA]

> All these words might be written with "ou" as well, because that
signifies
> the different phoneme, however Ron writes "droum" as well, but that
> has a Dutch "eu", or German "öö"

droum (_Droom_) [dro.Um]  'dream'
droym(en) (_Drööm_)  [dr{oe}.Ym(:)] ~ [dO.Im(:)] 'dreams'

So it's plural umlauting: /ou/ -> /öü/

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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