LL-L: "Grammar" LOWLANDS-L, 22.FEB.2000 (03) [E]

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From: Andrew Eagle [K27 at compuserve.com]
Subject: LL-L: "Grammar"  [E/S]

Ron wrote:

>I am also wondering about the semantic aspect of "to get to {verb}."  I
am>
>inclined to just translate it as "may" or "to be allowed/permitted to,"
but I
>am not too sure if that really captures it in all cases.  Might it be more
>accurate to translate it as "to have the privilege of ...ing" or in some
>instances "to have the prerogative of ...ing," or something like that?
>Examples:

>(1) "You'll get to blow out the candles on your birthday cake after we've
sung
>'Happy birthday'."

>(2) "Jackie gets to sit next to Granpa."

>(3) "Remember that it's you who gets to make the decisions from now on."

>Perhaps some of you can come up with other examples.

>It seems to me that "to get to" is not always freely interchangeable with
>"may" and "to be allowed to", though it may be in examples (1) and (2)
above.
>I'm not so sure about example (3).  Certainly, "may" and "to get to" seem
to
>connote different shades in examples like these:

>(4a) May I help you with your bags?  (= "Am I permitted to ...")
>(4b) Do I get to help you with your bags?  (= "Am I granted the privilege
of
>...ing")



1, 2 and 3 sound familiar to me. I would also assume 'get to' to mean 'to
be allowed'. Your examples of nuance seem perfactly acceptable as well,
depending on context. e.g. "Jackie gets to sit next to Grandad" 'has the
priviledge of' ...because you got to sit next to him last time.
        "..who gets to make the decisions..." 'You have the privledge
of'... because we appointed you. (In Scots ...you that gits tae mak...)

4b seems strange "Can I help you with..." (Can is typical Scots for asking
permission, may is no longer  used)

Scots uses such constructions:

The bairns gits tae come ben whan it tuims (The children are allowed inside
when it rains heavily)

Thay git daffin ootby till aicht in the een. (They are allowed to play
outside until eight in the evening)

Similarly in Scots 'maun' (must) only expresese the conclusive meaning.
Obligation is expressed with 'hae tae' (have to) and 'need tae' (need to)

A hae tae dae it nou (I must do it now/ I aught to do it now?)
A need tae pent the hoose (I must paint the house)

Need would be expressed 'the hoose is needin pentit' or 'wants a pentin'

Andy

----------

From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Grammar

Thanks, Andy, for the above explanation and the Scots info in this context.
Thanks also to Peter, Ian, Stefan and Candon for their input in the previous
issue.  That's very helpful.

So far it seems to look as though "to get to {verb}" is used also in
non-American varieties of English, albeit perhaps in a more restrictive way.

I am somewhat intrigued by Andy's mention of Scots, and Ian's indirect mention
(i.e. usage in Northern Ireland).  Might there be a possibility of device
having been introduced or reinforced in American English via Scots, directly
or indirectly via Scottish English?

Furthermore, I'm also wondering if there is any connection with or if it is an
extension of "to get to {verb}" in constructions such as "I got to hear about
it last Sunday," where the idea of "get" = acquisition > privilege may be more
obviously preserved.

Lastly, in the light of the fact (?) that this seems to be unique in West
Germanic, bearing in mind also Stefan's mention of Icelandic, I am wondering
if this could be a Scandinavian-derived feature adopted in English or perhaps
initially in Scots.  Bear in mind such Scandinavian expressions as Danish _Da
han vågnede og FIK AT vide hvad der var sket ham ..._ ("As he waked and GOT TO
know what there had happened-to him ..."), _Han får at vide, at ..." ("He GETS
TO know that ...") [always or mostly with _vide_ 'know'?].

Regards,

Reinhard/Ron


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