LL-L: "Code switching" LOWLANDS-L, 02.MAR.2000 (01) [E]

[Lowlands-L Administrator]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 02.MAR.2000 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
 Posting Address: <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>
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 A=Afrikaans, Ap=Appalachean, D=Dutch, E=English, F=Frisian, L=Limburgish
 LS=Low Saxon (Low German), S=Scots, Sh=Shetlandic
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From: Pepijn Hendriks [pepijnh at bigfoot.com]
Subject: LL-L: "Language varieties" LOWLANDS-L, 01.MAR.2000 (14) [E]

R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com] wrote:

>I would expect similar situations in cases such as Afrikaans <>
>English, Low Saxon <> Dutch, Frisian <> Dutch, and Dutch <> French,
>perhaps also Scots <> English, in our Lowlandic subject area.  I have
>been known to slip into this type of Low Saxon <> German and German <>
>English code switching myself (and I refer to it as "loose switch").

I think that in this respect the linguistic situation in Surinam is very
interesting. I have always heard that Dutch, although it is the official
language of the country (which gained its independence in 1975), is
the mother tongue of none.

Having said this, I notice that the Dutch as spoken by some Surinam
students I know here in the Netherlands is -- however accented --
much more fluent and native than the Dutch of students from the
Netherlands Antilles, where Dutch is merely the offical language, i.e.
the language of government and education, but not the language of
the people, who speak Papiamentu.

A few days ago, Dutch television showed excerpts from a speech by
Desi Bouterse, a chief political figure, addressing members of his party
mostly in Dutch, with a lot of Sranan (an English based creole) in
between, switching even multiple times in one sentence (as far as I
could hear: they didn't subtitle it until the speech became too
incoherent for speakers of Dutch).

I have once heard him doing it the other way round too: giving a
speech in Sranan, with addresses and the like in Dutch.

-Pepijn

--
 pepijnh at bigfoot.com -- http://www.bigfoot.com/~pepijnh -- ICQ - 6033220

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From: gavilan [gavilan at nbnet.nb.ca]
Subject: LL-L: "Language varieties" LOWLANDS-L, 01.MAR. [E]

Hello all,

Here in the bilingual area of Canada where I live (Moncton, New
Brunswick), the French-speaking Acadians constantly switch back and forth
between their French and English. The other day I overheard two grocery
store workers discussing the arrangement of a meat display. One said to
the other, "Okay, je vais le changer back." This is very typical.  The
Acadians also almost always fall back on English for any technical term.

On a more personal note, a lady friend (from Spain) and I often lunch
together and we always speak Spanish, but I've noticed that when a
waiter/waitress approaches the table we switch to English...strange.
Another small item is that if that serving person (is that politically
correct?) overhears us speaking Spanish, he/she will speak to us in
French.   (Serving people are most often bilingual.)

      *+*^*+*^*+*^*+*^*+*^*+*

        -+-  Bob Thiel  -+-
        gavilan at nbnet.nb.ca
    Translator: Spanish to English

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From: "Ian James Parsley" <parsley at highbury.fsnet.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L: "Language varieties" LOWLANDS-L, 01.MAR.2000 (14) [E]

Ron,

Well, I certainly had no idea "code-switching" was as advanced as that
in
the cases you mentioned, that's most interesting.

You asked about Scots <> English. It is noticeable that the distinct
words
that have remained in common usage in Scots are almost always shorter
than
their English equivalents (there are exceptions to this but I suspect
they
are in particular areas of terminology, such as agriculture - an
obvious
case for research). I suspect the reason is that most Scots speakers,
certainly those from different dialect areas, actually start off in
English
but use Scots words where they are obviously shorter or more accurate
(e.g.
deave "to annoy by making a noise", thole "to put up with", gunk
"disappointment"). I suppose what I'm saying is that Scots speakers,
particularly those from different areas, tend to start in English (a
language they share and one with a standard that they can go by) and
then
drift into Scots when that is more suitable, rather than the other way
around.

I think Low Saxon is probably one-up on Scots here, though I can't be
sure.
When a Scots-speaking child first goes to school he/she is told that
his/her
speech is "wrong" or "bad". I get the impression that a
Low-Saxon-speaking
child is told that his/her speech is "low" (or "platt" or whatever),
which
indicates merely that it is to be avoided in formal situations (such as
with
the teacher), but not that it's wrong altogether. This is why Low Saxon
speakers would maybe be more likely to start a conversation in Low
Saxon,
though I wonder whether the lack of a common standard would still lead
to
problems between people from different areas?

Best regards,
-------------------------------
Ian James Parsley
http://www.gcty.com/parsleyij
"JOY - Jesus, Others, You"

----------

From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Code switching

> I think Low Saxon is probably one-up on Scots here, though I can't be
> sure.
> When a Scots-speaking child first goes to school he/she is told that
> his/her
> speech is "wrong" or "bad". I get the impression that a
> Low-Saxon-speaking
> child is told that his/her speech is "low" (or "platt" or whatever),
> which
> indicates merely that it is to be avoided in formal situations (such as
> with
> the teacher), but not that it's wrong altogether. This is why Low Saxon
> speakers would maybe be more likely to start a conversation in Low
> Saxon,
> though I wonder whether the lack of a common standard would still lead
> to
> problems between people from different areas?

Ian, I don't think the situations are all that different.  It is true that
more and more people see Low Saxon (Low German) as a ligitimate language, but
even many of those still tend to confine it to certain contexts, will switch
to "serious" (i.e., "High" German) mode as soon as certain topics come up.

Anyway, children growing up with LS in their early years are now few and far
between, probably mostly in Eastern Friesland, though the number may increase
as more people start feeling they have received the green light and are
realizing that bringing up a child with this language is not detrimental to
education and career, and kindergartens and school reintroduce the language.

Many, many people still feel that using LS in "public" and "serious" ways is
not quite acceptable.  This is a hangup from earlier times when LS was seen
and treated as "bad" by many educators, bureaucrats, etc., when it was
forbidden in schools and used in few churches, and the language went
underground, so to speak, being confined to private spheres and to "fun" and
parochial themes.  You can legislate and recognize till you're blue in the
face.  Once a language has gone underground and has acquired a flavor of shame
it is difficult to persuade most speakers to bring it back out and use it
consistently in any sphere.

Best regards,

Reinhard/Ron

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