LL-L: "Language varieties" LOWLANDS-L, 03.MAY.2000 (01) [E]

Wed May 3 14:41:25 UTC 2000

 ======================================================================
 L O W L A N D S - L * 03.MAY.2000 (03) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
 Posting Address: <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>
 Web Site: <http://www.geocities.com/sassisch/rhahn/lowlands/>
 User's Manual: <http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html>
 Archive: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html>
 =======================================================================
 A=Afrikaans, Ap=Appalachean, D=Dutch, E=English, F=Frisian, L=Limburgish
 LS=Low Saxon (Low German), S=Scots, Sh=Shetlandic
 =======================================================================

From: john feather [johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk]
Subject: Language varieties

I obviously misunderstood Ed's story about the "Australians".

I know from my own experience that if someone has  a slight accent it is
possible to misdiagnose it and to amplify the signal, as it were, with other
clues which may be misleading. Once one has made the judgement the brain
seems to have the ability to stick with it even in the face of more solid,
contrary evidence. I once met a Scotsman called Jones who talked at length
about rugby football and I was convinced he was Welsh! I also met a woman
who said she had been living in South Africa and it wasn't till I met her
again that I realised her accent was really Scottish.

This isn't just a sign that I have a poor ear. I once met a woman on holiday
and couldn't decide whether she was from Suffolk or Leicestershire. It
turned out that she had been born in Suffolk and now lived in Leicester.

I hope I haven't told these stories before.

John Feather
johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk

----------

From: Thomas [t.mcrae at uq.net.au]
Subject: LL-L: "Language varieties" LOWLANDS-L, 02.MAY.2000 (01) [E]

> I have heard that Ausatralian English is much a combo of London East
> End, as well as Lowland Scot. In part due to the prisons (debtors) being
> cleaned out for shipment to Australia, as well as many Scots after the
> last Glorious Rebellion in Scotland being shipped off for often less
> than criminal acts other than possible Jacobite leanings.

This explanation is, I'm afraid, historically inaccurate as transportation
to Australia started up well after The '45, in fact with the organising of
The First Fleet in 1787. Face it transportation of Lowland Scots for taking
part in the 45 rebellion would have been rare as it was largely a Highland
army that revolted. I concede that there were some Lowlanders, Irish, and
English in the ranks as well but their numbers were small.
Prior to Australian transportation smaller numbers of convicts were
offloaded in The Americas until The War of Independence put a stop to that.
Debtors were not usually transported, they were held until their debts were
paid, much more profitable. Most transportees paid the penalty for fairly
minor crimes, poaching being a good example, petty theft another. Some
however committed crimes that merited the severe punishment imposed.
There was a wide range of nationalities among convicts of that First Fleet
of which cockneys were only a part. There were even two West Africans among
the prisoners, miscreants from many English counties, and from Ireland. Only
a few alleged Scots rebels were transported the most prominent being Thomas
Muir one of The Five Scottish Martyrs so unjustly sent to Botany Bay in
1795. (In fact only two were actually Scots, Muir and another who died soon
after arrival. There was also Portuguese wine merchant and two Englishmen
among The Five only the Portugueses made it back to England.).
Another two Scots were later transported for having a medallion that had
LIBERTY inscribed on it.
A much larger body of genuine rebels was transported over the years from
Ireland including the famous Napper Tandy. The Australian convict population
was therefore rather a melting pot in terms of dialects in which Lowland
Scots really played little or no part.
Now the Kiwi accent definitely has Scottish input in its present day
pronunciation. Many Scots went there as free settlers and it shows in things
like "Fush und chups" and "Sux" for six. They probably use aboot as well,
must check on that some time.
Regards
Tom
Tom Mc Rae
Brisbane Australia
"Oh wid some power the Giftie gie us
Tae see oorselves as ithers see us"
Robert Burns--

----------

From: Thomas [t.mcrae at uq.net.au]
Subject: LL-L: "Language varieties" LOWLANDS-L, 02.MAY.2000 (05) [E]

> Personally, I prefer to think of Australian English as having been initially
> based on a great number of English dialects, among which Cockney may have been
> one of the most influential.

Well said Ron.
Regards
Tom
Tom Mc Rae
Brisbane Australia
"Oh wid some power the Giftie gie us
Tae see oorselves as ithers see us"
Robert Burns--

----------

From: john feather [johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk]
Subject: Language varieties

Tom McRae rightly pointed out that Scots use the pronunciation "aboot". I
had no desire to deprive them of it: I condensed my comments too much. I
meant to say
1) Canadians are unique in North America in using this pronunciation (so it
is "typical" if not universal amongst them)
2) the way that Canadians pronounce the sound is arguably subtly different
from the way that _anyone_ else pronounces it, with that admixture of [o] as
in "aboat".

I shall never make this error again, given that Bill Haley's immortal
"There's a moose loose aboot the hoose" keeps going through my head and
WON'T STOP!

John Feather
johnfeather at sceptic1.freeserve.co.uk

==================================END===================================
 You have received this because your account has been subscribed upon
 request. To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l"
 as message text from the same account to
 <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or sign off at
 <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
 =======================================================================
 * Please submit contributions to <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>.
 * Contributions will be displayed unedited in digest form.
 * Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
 * Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
   to be sent to <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or at
   <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
 * Please use only Plain Text format, not Rich Text (HTML) or any other
   type of format, in your submissions
 =======================================================================