LL-L: "Language varieties" LOWLANDS-L, 03.NOV.2000 (01) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 03.NOV.2000 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
 Posting Address: <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>
 Web Site: <http://www.geocities.com/sassisch/rhahn/lowlands/>
 User's Manual: <http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html>
 Archive: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html>
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 A=Afrikaans, Ap=Appalachean, D=Dutch, E=English, F=Frisian, L=Limburgish
 LS=Low Saxon (Low German), S=Scots, Sh=Shetlandic, Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Language varieties

Dear Lowlanders,

As most of you know, the name "Low German" (_Niederdeutsch_, _Plattdeutsch_)
as it is used in Germany with reference to Northern Germany is a vague and
somewhat inaccurate one in that it is a catch-all label for what appears or
may be argued to be more than one language.

(In addition, most people and unfortunately even supposedly supportive German
organizations, regard this "Low German" as abruptly ending at the
German-Netherlands and German-Belgian borders, and some publications, such as
a recently published "Low German" grammar (Lindow et al. _Niederdeutsche
Grammatik_, Leer: Schuster, 1998), endorse this nationally based isolationist
view.  However, this is not the actual focus of this posting, just a necessary
aside.)

The vast majority of language varieties within "Low German" in Germany are
Saxon ones, i.e., direct descendents of Old Saxon, with several subgroups.
They tend to be called "Low Saxon" in the Netherlands (_Nedersaksisch_) and by
a minority in Germany (_Niedersächsisch_).  I think most LL-L subscribers are
already aware of this.

I have only a fairly rough idea about the other "Low German" dialects used in
Germany (in the extreme southwest of the "Low German" area), and I wonder if
some of you could give me some more specific information.

German sources that deal with this tend to refer only to _Niederfränkish_
("Low Frankish") in this context.  This would mean that those dialects are
related to Dutch and technically speaking belong to Dutch.  However, not too
long ago we heard on LL-L that dialects of Limburgish (which is in the process
of asserting itself in Belgium and the Netherlands, if Belgium will ever
ratify the European Language Charter) are found in Germany too, such as in
Krefeld and Viesche/Viersen.  As far as I am aware, Limburgish is "Rhine-Maas
Frankish."  This is, strictly speaking, not Low Frankish.  Or is it?  If it is
not, is it correct to say that Limburgish *and* Low Frankish dialects are
lumped together with Saxon ones under "Low German," or is it only Limburgish
ones that in German sources are erroneously referred to as "Low Frankish"?

Can anyone help me sort through this mess?  Some specific geographic and
typological information would be very welcome.

Thank you very much.

And a special welcome to all of you who joined us in recent weeks, from
Argentina, Australia, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Cuba, Denmark, France, Germany,
Indonesia, Israel, Japan, Northern Ireland, Norway, the Netherlands, Pakistan,
Poland, Russia, Scotland, Switzerland and the United States of America.

Friendly regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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