LL-L: "Standardization" LOWLANDS-L, 05.SEP.2000 (04) [S]

[Lowlands-L]

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  L O W L A N D S - L * 05.SEP.2000 (04) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: Andy Eagle [Andy.Eagle at t-online.de]
Subject: LL-L: "Standardization" LOWLANDS-L, 04.SEP.2000 (03) [S]

R. F. Hahn wrate:
> Subject: Standardization
>
> Andy wrate:
>
> > Whit for shoud your vote no coont?
>
> Cause A wis makin game an sayed the contrair o what's ma thocht.  The
Scots
> _ou_ rule is lik the _Dehnungs-H_ rule in Laich Saxon spellin.

Its no sae semple as that. The <ou> for /u(:)/ gangs back a lang time in
wrutten Scots.

"of lyfe na ded dout hafand nane" The Legend of the Saints C14.
"And oft in hard stour off bataill" The Brus 1375.
"A littil mouß come till a rever syd;" The Taill of the Paddock an the Mous

1568.

Tho in this period <ow> wis whiles uised an aa.
After the Union <ou> an <ow> were regularly used for /u(:)/
Tho <ow> micht hae representit a different soond.
The /u(:)/ in hoose/house haes been /u(:)/ syne Anglo-Saxon times.
It wis oreeginally /u/ in English an aa.

"He was out wi the Heilandmen." Sir Walter Scott

The uiss o <oo> for /u(:)/ stairts in th e19C

"we've haen a pleasantness in oor lives 'at comes to few" J.M. Barrie

<ou> is a tradeetional Scots digraph an no an English import. <oo> is the
import.
Unfortunate-like akis o the spreidin influence o staundart English <ou> is
nou associatit wi the diphthong /Vu/.
<ou> is aye /u(:)/ in Scots gin ye redd out orra spellins lik *coup an
*loup
for cowp an lowp etc.
Final <ou> in Soothren Scots is /Vu/.
Aa the same, at the end o the day <oo> micht be a mair pragmatic chyce.
Tak <ou> respell room 'roum'?
Tak <oo> respell group 'groop'?

Andy

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From: John M. Tait [jmtait at altavista.net]
Subject: LL-L: "Standardization" LOWLANDS-L, 04.SEP.2000 (03) [S]

Andy wrate:

 Interestin eneuch, 'muive' haes
>[me:v] an [mi:v] in Ulster. In central Scots [me:v] wad be predictit but
>onlie [mu:v] kythes. Aiblins juist anglifeein. [mi:v] is kent in the NE.

Appearently - I think I read this in Paul Johnston - the UI pronunciations
is maist likely ti dee oot afore V an Z. Sae aiblins Ulster haes hained
whit shoud be a Central pronunciation, at haes juist dee'd oot thare. Ye
get <meeve> in NE writin, but I'v niver haurd oniebodie sayin it - even
rael braid Scots speakers I ken, aboot my age, frae the 'kweentra' - at aye
says things like 'vrocht' an 'vringin' for _wrocht_ an _wringin_ - says
[mu:v].  Same thing in Shetland - pronuncins like [m2:v] is attestit in
LSS, but I say [mu:v]. (Tho ye get, asweel, the spellin <muv> at maun be
pronunced [mVv])

Ron wrate:
>
>Cause A wis makin game an sayed the contrair o what's ma thocht.  The
Scots
>_ou_ rule is lik the _Dehnungs-H_ rule in Laich Saxon spellin.

Heh! Ye'r juist sayin this cause ye canna come up wi the examples I asked
for...

Gin I understaund the Laich Saxon situation richt, tho, it's no juist the
same. <oo> is uised in maist Scots spellin ti _sinder_ the pronunciation o
words like _out_ frae the kenspeckle Scottish English [Vu] pronunciation,
but <ou> is whiles uised for the [u] soond in words whaur this problem
disna kythe; whaurbyes in LS the _Dehnungs-H_ is - gin I understaund it
richt - uised in words wi HG cognates an Lowlands spellins for anes wi'oot.
In ither words, the'r a pronunciation issue in Scots at aiblins isna an
issue i the LS case. <mukkil> an <buckle> - whaur the'r nae pronunciation
fankle - wad be mair like the LS situation. Or hiv ye raiveled me
completely....!

John M. Tait.

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From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Standardization

Awricht, awricht, fellas!  A deserr no vote.  A'm howkin ma delf deeper an
deeper an shuid hae haudden ma tung aboot ma queerie wee thochties.  It's
as plain as parritch at A dinna ken whit A'm bletherin aboot, an the best A
can pit ower is playin the knackie wi ma hauf-wittins an ma hauf-Scots.

(Thanks fer yer couthie help wi the Scots but, John.)

Whit we need is a muckle Scots langage sample (a story mibbie) in IPA on
the Wab, the same text in three till five dialects.

Regairds,
Reinhard/Ron

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