LL-L: "Numbers" LOWLANDS-L, 14.AUG.2001 (05) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

======================================================================
 L O W L A N D S - L * 14.AUG.2001 (05) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
 Web Site: <http://www.geocities.com/sassisch/rhahn/lowlands/>
 Rules: <http://www.geocities.com/sassisch/rhahn/lowlands/rules.html>
 Posting Address: <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>
 Server Manual: <http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html>
 Archive: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html>
=======================================================================
 A=Afrikaans, Ap=Appalachian, D=Dutch, E=English, F=Frisian, L=Limburgish
 LS=Low Saxon (Low German), S=Scots, Sh=Shetlandic, Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
=======================================================================

From: Dl7bk at aol.com
Subject: figures/numbers in Low Saxon, parallels in French?

Dear Lowlanders,

in Emsland Low Saxon we count like "twintig" (20), dartig (30), ....sesstig
(60), but then "sevenzig" (70), "achtzig" (80) and "negenzig" (90). So the
ending "-tig" (the equivalent to the English "-ty" is used up to sixty (60).

Starting from seventy (70) the Low Saxon ending "tig" is replaced by the
German ending "zig".

As most readers may know, French counting is regular up to 60 (soixante).
Then standard French starts with additions "soixante-dix" (60+10),
"quattre-vingt" (4x20) and "quattre-vingt-dix" (4x20+10).

Does anybody have an idea if there is a link or a common reason for this
phenomenon, that both languages have a "problem" with numbers higher than 60?
Are there other lowlands languages with the same irregularity? Or is it just a
trace that Napoleon has left in our region?

As far as I know, this is only in Emsland Low Saxon. In adjacent varieties of
Low Saxon (Eastern Frisia, Oldenburg) counting continues with the ending
"-tig" up to 90.

Regards

Zintus Sievering
DL7BK at aol.com
----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Numbers

Zintus,

What you described above is a rather interesting phenomenon of which I had not
been aware.

> As far as I know, this is only in Emsland Low Saxon. In adjacent > varieties of  Low Saxon (Eastern Frisia, Oldenburg) counting continues > with the ending "-tig" up to 90.

Yes, and as far as I know, this applies to all other Northern Low Saxon
dialects as well:

20: twintig
30: dörtig ~ dartig
40: veertig
50: föftig ~ fieftig
60: sösstig ~ sosstig ~ sesstig
70: söventig ~ söbentig
80: tachentig ~ ach(t)zig (!)
90: negentig

I am pretty sure that _ach(t)zig_ is a "High" German loan that replaced native
_tachentig_ in some dialects.  (/-tig/ > German /-tsig/)

As for the _t-_ in 80, I assume it is derived from a suffix (cf. _acht_
'eight'); cf. Dutch _tachtig_ 'eighty'.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

==================================END===================================
 You have received this because your account has been subscribed upon
 request. To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l"
 as message text from the same account to
 <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or sign off at
 <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
=======================================================================
 * Please submit contributions to <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>.
 * Contributions will be displayed unedited in digest form.
 * Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
 * Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
   to be sent to <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or at
   <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
 * Please use only Plain Text format, not Rich Text (HTML) or any other
   type of format, in your submissions
=======================================================================