LL-L: "Language survival" LOWLANDS-L, 15.FEB.2001 (01) [D/E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 15.FEB.2001 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans, Ap=Appalachean, D=Dutch, E=English, F=Frisian, L=Limburgish
LS=Low Saxon (Low German), S=Scots, Sh=Shetlandic, Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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From: Marco Evenhuis [evenhuis at zeelandnet.nl]
Subject: LL-L: "Language survival" LOWLANDS-L, 14.FEB.2001 (03)

Roger Thijs wrote:
>
> > I have problems with these statistics, since I never can find
> > any of these 40.000 speakers, even when hanging around several
> > hours in the center of Belle-Bailleul on a market day, even

Stefan Israel responded:

> Roger's suspicion is entirely possible, but on the other hand,
> speaker of minority languages are frequently very reluctant to
> speak their variety publicly, and may even deny they speak it.

The Euromosaic Report I mentioned earlier states that: "According to Röhrig
(1987), some 20% of people living in maritime Flanders are of Flemish
mother-tongue. However, only 5% of them use Flemish on a daily basis".
That's probably the reason Roger never (?) finds a speaker of Flemish while
visiting the region.
Roger mentions the city of Bailleul, which is in fact one of the bigger
cities in French Flanders and the Western Flemish language of the region is
very much a language of the more rural areas. And when people from the
countryside come to the city, they addept themselves to the city. Even here
in Zeeland, people who use Zeeuws/Zeelandic on a daily basis switch to (more
or less) Standard Dutch when coming to the capital Middelburg. They know
that in Middelburg most people speak Dutch instead of Zeeuws, so they leave
their Zeeuws at the city gate...

Furthermore, did Roger just listen in Bailleul, or did he try to speak with
people in their own language? Standard Dutch is hardly understood by most
speakers of West-Flemish in France... Perhaps Roger should try to go to a
play by the theatre group 'Volkstoneel voor Frans-Vlaanderen'. This group
stages Western Flemish plays throughout French Flanders each year and each
year it's really hard to conquer tickets! When I attended a play by this
Volkstoneel in Godewaersvelde, the place was packed. And everywhere around
me I heard people speak Western Flemish, switching to French and back to
Western Flemish. And they where not just old people, there were some 40 year
olds there as well...
I myself hardly ever use French when in French Flanders. My Zeelandic
dialect is understood perfectly overthere and when I start a conversation in
my dialect and the person I speak to doesn't understand Flemish/Zeeuws,
there is always someone near who does.

Roger, on your next trip to French Flanders, skip Bailleul/Belle and, if you
do want to visit a town rather than the countryside, try Bergues/Sint
Winoksbergen. In the streets, in shops, on the market place you will hardly
hear any Flemish spoken. But I remember spending a whole afternoon in the
Café des Sports, chatting with almost everyone in the pub and not having to
use one word of French!

Marco Evenhuis

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From: Vermeulen [vermeulen.vastgoed at pandora.be]
Subject: LL-L: "Language survival" LOWLANDS-L, 14.FEB.2001 (01)

Geachte Lowlanders,

Ik wist niet dat het ook zo erg gesteld was in Zeeland... Deze toestand was
dus niet veel beter dan die in Occitanië waar borden op de speelkoer stonden
met de tekst: "Soyez propre, parlez Français", of in Bergues waar in koeien
van letters op de buitenschoolmuur geschilderd stond: "Interdit de cracher
et de parler Flamand" (foto te vinden in het boek van Luc Vanackere "Hoog
bezoek in de Westhoek"), of in Belle en Duinkerke waar de jongeren die
Vlaams durfden te spreken werden afgeranseld, of nog in 't zuiden van
West-Vlaanderen waar een ware heksenjacht rond het Vlaamse schooltje van
Komen gewoed heeft (dit laatste is zelfs van ver na de IIe wereldoorlog!).

Het is allemaal nog niet zolang geleden en de schrik zit er nu nog
ongelooflijk diep in, zodat het zeer gevaarlijk is als buitenstaander
besluiten te trekken vanuit oppervlakkige waarnemingen!!!

Nu is het zeer de vraag of die blijkbaar van hogerhand gestuurde
(ON)MAATSCHAPPELIJKE  druk wel verbeterd is, en of nu wellicht alleen maar
de methoden wat verfijnd of aangescherpt zijn (of worden)?

En wat zien we in de eigen Lowland-Lijst:

Het Engels wordt ((door de kwalijk opgefokte traditie en niet door de
Lowland-L-administratie!)) iedereen in de strot geduwd en uiteindelijk
beginnen de Vlaamse en de Nederlandse deelnemers mee te kwelen in het
Engels; het logische opzet is nochtans inzicht te krijgen in de
verschillende talen van de groep en het ware toch heel wat logischer en vele
keren leerzamer voor de medeleden dat ieder zich bediene van zijn eigen
taal! Een samenvatting in het Engels mag er dan wel bijkomen, maar zelfs dit
laatste is onlogisch vermits iedere deelnemer geacht wordt taalgevoelig te
zijn en zeker open te staan voor de andere talen van de groep om die beter
te leren kennen en waarderen.

Frans Vermeulen

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