LL-L: "Language survival" LOWLANDS-L, 17.FEB.2001 (01) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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  L O W L A N D S - L * 17.FEB.2001 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: Criostoir O Ciardha [paada_please at yahoo.co.uk]
Subject: LL-L: "Language survival" LOWLANDS-L, 15.FEB.2001 (03)
[D/E/German]

A chairde,

Please excuse me for the delayed reply to what Ian
asserted.

> >You can't get round the fact that some of the
> essence of
> >the language will be gone, because it already has
> gone
> >(Irish has, for example, lost its distinct spectrum
> of
> >colours - colour names are now expressed on a
> >one-to-one basis with English equivalents, rather
> than
> >on their own scale).

I would like to know where Ian read this, as it is not
the case. The Irish I speak and all Irish I come into
contact with retains the native Gaelic colour
spectrum, which is structurally mismatched to the
English version. Whilst I understand that there are
moves within "official Irish" (i.e., the monitored
literary standard) to impose an alien colour scheme,
the facts on the ground remain that we use our Gaelic
system:

liath = Eng. grey, sky-blue
glas = Eng. blue, aquamarine, torqouise, grass-green.
gorm = Eng. navy blue (also "duine gorm" = a black
   person)
uaine = Eng. forest-green, dark green, green-brown.
donn = Eng. mud-brown, soil-dark
dubh = Eng. deep black, ink-black
is dorcha = darkening (of all colours)
is geal = brightening (of all colours, also used to
       describe white)
corcra = Eng. purple, burgundy
bán = Eng. white
dearg = Eng. red, scarlet, maroon
rua = Eng. red of hair
buí = Eng. yellow, orange

I have noticed that orange is described in the
literary standard as "oráiste" which is clearly a loan
from English, although no-one uses it in everyday
speech. The Irish for "Orangemen" is "na Fir Buí"
which also plays with the Irish allusive "buí" to mean
"thankful" (i.e., "buíochas" = gratitude, effusive
praise).

I hope I haven't overstepped the mark but a correction
was required.

Go raibh maith agaibh,

Críostóir.

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From: Ian James Parsley [parsleyij at yahoo.com]
Subject: LL-L: "Language survival" LOWLANDS-L, 16.FEB.2001 (04) [E]

Ron,

> I know exactly the experience you are relating.  "At the same time"
is the
> operative phrase here.  Yes, it is very familiar to me.  However, I
have
> noticed in my own case that foreign languages compete for a place
only then
> when they are still at a type of intensive learning stage.  I can
> comfortably switch between three languages.

Some researchers have suggested three are possible (I wonder if in my
case English and Scots take the first two 'compartments', so actually
German, Spanish and others are competing for a third). However, in my
case, arriving to live in Granada for a few months in early 1998, I
had to 'throw out' fluent German (fluent to the extent that at the
time I chose to read German rather than English on multilingual signs)
in order to have a go at novice's Spanish. My suspicion is still,
therefore, that most people can only manage two *at the same time*,
and that those who appear to manage three (or more) are simply those
who can manage the 'changeover' between them quickly. But then, I
would not consider myself a natural linguist (I'm more mathematically
minded), so my experiences are by no means necessarily definitive.

Further notes on this appear on pages 362-3 of:

Crystal, D., 1987. _Cambridge Encyclopedia of Language_. Cambridge,
New York and Melbourne: Cambridge University.

Regards,
--------------------
Ian James Parsley

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