LL-L: "Etymology" LOWLANDS-L, 09.JAN.2001 (01) [E]

Tue Jan 9 16:44:11 UTC 2001

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 09.JAN.2001 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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 A=Afrikaans, Ap=Appalachean, D=Dutch, E=English, F=Frisian, L=Limburgish
 LS=Low Saxon (Low German), S=Scots, Sh=Shetlandic, Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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From: Margaret Tarbet [oneko at mindspring.com]
Subject: Etymology

On Sun, 17 Dec 2000 11:17:54 -0800, Ron wrote, apropos kist:

> I wonder if this is a Dutch loanword (considering
>"Flemish" immigration to Scotland), or if it is perhaps a Low Saxon
>loanword

Speaking of loanwords (this may be too trivial for anyone to have
mentioned it, or it may be folk etymology) but I recall being
startled hearing a German woman in Bederkesa say 'kiek' ('kiek
mal!').  For a wobbly moment I thought she must be speaking Scots,
since the German would have been 'guck'.

Loanword or accident?

Margaret

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From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Etymology

Margaret, Lowlanders,

I have long been wondering about Scots _keek_ 'look', because Low Saxon (Low
German) has _kiek_ (_kieken_).  Yes, German has _guck_ (_gucken_).  I assume
the woman you heard actually spoke Low Saxon, because _kiek_ is not even used
in Missingsch (i.e., Northern German on Low Saxon substrate).  In Missingsch
and in various other types of North German dialect you pronounce it [k`Uk]
even though you usually write it _guck_.  (If she had spoken Missingsch or
"broad" Northern German, the woman would have said, _Kuck ma!_.  Pronouncing
it [gUk] is decidedly "Southern," as is using _schau_ (_schauen_), though more
and more Northerners seem to be adopting these now when they want to sound
particularly well-educated.)

There was considerable immigration to Scotland from the Dutch-speaking areas,
apparently mostly from Flanders.  If Scots _keek_ is a Dutch loan, it would
have to be rather old, namely from a time before the /ii/ > /@i/ shift took
place in Dutch (> _kijken_).  I am not totally sure about the timeline, but I
assume the shift predates Flemish immigration to Scotland.  Had the word been
borrowed then, it would have been something like *_kike_ or *_kyke_.

Could Scots _keek_ go back to some Old English word that did not make it into
Modern English?  Can anyone think of such a word?

And then there is the (remote?) possibility that it is a Middle Low Saxon (Low
German) loan from the Hanseatic era (*_kyk_), for among the sister languages
only Low Saxon seems to have the form _kiek_.

I cannot find a Westerlauwer ("West") Frisian cognate.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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From: Henry Pijffers [henry.pijffers at fluffyonline.cjb.net]
Subject: LL-L: "Etymology" LOWLANDS-L, 19.DEC.2000 (01) [D/E/F]

Henno Brandsma schreev:
>
>> Can anybody help with the etymology of Frisian _heit_ :father?
>>
>There have been some papers on this somewhat mysterious looking west
>Frisian word "heit". The most recent one that I know of considers it a
>Lallwort (there might be some appropriate English word that I do not
>know), a word that appears spontaneously in the speech of infants
>(indeed a bit weak). It only appears in Frisian (and some former
>Frisian areas). A related formation (an analogy one could say) is to
>be found in the Gothic "atta" = father. Another paper tries to connect
>it with Germanic *heitan = to command (older Dutch has "heten" in this
>meaning, as older Frisian with "hjitte"), but then the vowel seems
>strange: the normal reflex of *ai would be _ee_ or _ie/ji/i_.
>Also it would be uncommon in Germanic to call the father "he that
>commands" I think.
>
This just came up in my mind, and I might be way off the mark
here (probably), but did anyone think of a relation between
Frisian "heit" and English "head"? As in the father being the
head of the family.

regards,
Henry

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From: Henry Pijffers [henry.pijffers at fluffyonline.cjb.net]
Subject: LL-L: "Etymology" LOWLANDS-L, 21.DEC.2000 (02) [E]

Ron schreev:
>
>Does any of you know about the dialectal distribution of _Adebaar_ (etc.) vs
>_Stork_ (etc.) as the actual word denoting 'stork' (not a story name for
>storks)?
>
In my LS dialect of Twente, I use the word _stork_ for this
particular bird. I have never heard of _adebaar_ in this
area. _ooievaar_ is used, but I guess it's just a Dutch loan.

regards,
Henry

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From: Henry Pijffers [henry.pijffers at fluffyonline.cjb.net]
Subject: LL-L: "Etymology" (was "Folklore") LOWLANDS-L, 28.DEC.2000 (02) [E]

Ron schreev:
>
>I am not entirely sure about the actual etymology of _Maat_ and if there is
>any connection with _Maat_ 'measure'.  The latter word may be used to denote
>something like "a certain-sized piece/part of a whole" (as may English
>_measure_ as in "a measure of ..."), so I would not be all that surprised if
>there was a connection.  Any clues in Dutch etymological sources?
>
I presume _maat_ meaning 'chum' and _maat_ meaning 'measure' are
one and the same word in your LS dialect. However, in mine they are 2
slightly different words: we have _maat_ 'chum' and _mate_ 'measure'.
Also, the plurals are different: _möte_ 'chums' and _maten_ 'measures'.

Does this help in any way?

Henry

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