LL-L: "Language varieties" (was "Translation") LOWLANDS-L, 19.JUN.2001 (03) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 19.JUN.2001 (03) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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 A=Afrikaans, Ap=Appalachean, D=Dutch, E=English, F=Frisian, L=Limburgish
 LS=Low Saxon (Low German), S=Scots, Sh=Shetlandic, Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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From: "Szelog, Mike" <Mike.Szelog at CITIZENSBANK.com>
Subject: Straelen Translation

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Translation

Dear Lowlanders,

Thanks to Mike for the translation into Straelen dialect (above).  How would
you classify this variety?  Limburgish?

I understand that the varieties of the Viersen/Süchteln area of Germany are
Limburgish.  One of my sisters has been living in Viesche/Viersen for
decades.  Even though she never fully mastered the local dialect, she
understands it well, speaks "dialect-colored" German and is so used to it
that
she has tremendous difficulties even to understand the Low Saxon dialects of
our common native Lower Elbe area, or any other Saxon-based dialect for that
matter.  She said there are huge differences between the two.  I replied
that
this is not surprising since she is dealing with two languages, Limburgish
and
Low Saxon, belonging to the Franconian and Saxon subbranches.  You see?
This
catch-all label "Low German" (_Niederdeutsch/Plattdeutsch_) being used for
Franconian- and Saxon-based varieties in Germany leads people to think of
them
as one language and to expect that they are mutually easily intelligible,
and
they find it very strange that this is not so and that they "feel" so
different.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron


Hello Reinhard & Lowlanders,

Yes, I believe it to be a Limburgish dialect, though, as I mentioned, still
very different from what I am used to hearing in the Viersen area (also
Limburgish, but different from Straelen and, say, Kleve). In fact, many
people can go from the Viersen area over the border to Venlo in the
Netherlands (about an hour by bicycle)and have absolutely no problem
understanding merchants, etc. who speak in the dialect of Venlo - it seemed
to me that they were virtually the same, but that the dialect of Venlo was
more "Dutch colored", so to speak, while the Viersen dialect was more
"German colored". I had inquired when I was there (Venlo)what the dialect
was, and the response seemed to be an overwhelming "Limburg" - It is an area
in which, as I'm sure you know, dialect can vary from town to neighboring
town - Viersen uses "Kenk-Kenger" for "Kind/Kinder", while Süchteln, the
very next town, uses "Kink/Kinger"!

Mike Szelog
Manchester, NH - USA
mike.szelog at citizensbank.com

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language varieties

Mike Szelog wrote:

> Viersen uses "Kenk-Kenger" for "Kind/Kinder", while Süchteln, the
> very next town, uses "Kink/Kinger"

This type of varietation is common among the Low Saxon dialect as well, even
within small areas.  Where certain dialects have short mid-level vowels (/e/,
/ö/, /o/) other have high vowel equivalents (/i/, /ü/, /u/); e.g., _denken_ ~
_dinken_ 'to think', _hell_ ~ _hill_ 'light', 'bright', _Pött_ ~ _Pütt_
'pots', _Pott_ ~ _Putt_ 'pot', (_van_ ~) _von_ ~ _vun_ 'of'.  However, as far
as I can tell, this is just a trend, i.e., these alternations are not fully
predictable on the basis of modern-language information.  For instance, I
believe it is always _Kopp_ 'head', 'cup' and _Köpp_ 'heads', 'cups', never
*_Kupp_ and *_Küpp_ respectively, and it is always _Rott_ 'rat' and _Rött(en)_
'rats', never *_Rutt_ and *_Rütt(en)_ respectively.

The shift /...nd/ > /...ng/ in your example represents one of those features
that to me come across as "typically Rhenish."  I believe it predominates in
Limburgish.  Doesn't it?

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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