LL-L: "Etymology" LOWLANDS-L, 06.MAR.2001 (05) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 06.MAR.2001 (05) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: Roger Thijs [roger.thijs at euro-support.be]
Subject: LL-L: "Etymology" LOWLANDS-L, 06.MAR.2001 (04) [E/LS]

----- Original Message ----- >
> From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
> Subject: Etymology

Below the versions in my Limburgish from Vliermaal
(Sorry it's not really an etymological contribution)

> /(wou)kein/ wokeen ~ keen 'who'
> (cf. /kein(ein)/ keen(een) 'none', 'no one', 'nobody')
> (cf. NL wie, Afr. wie 'who')
> (cf. D wer 'who')
Li: "wi-e"

> /(wou)nee(v)n/ woneven ~ woneben ~ woneem ~ (')neem 'where'
> (ook/also: /waar/ waar ~ woor)
> (cf. /neevn/ neven ~ neben 'beside', 'next to')
> (cf. NL waar, Afr. waar 'where')
> (cf. D wo 'where', neben 'beside', 'next to')
Li (Vliermaal): "bow"; (Tongeren): "boo"

> /nüms/ nüms ~ /nums/ nums 'no one', 'nobody'
> (ook/also: /kein(ein)/ keen(een) 'none', 'no one', 'nobody')
> (cf. NL niemand, Afr. niemand nie 'no one', 'nobody')
> (cf. D niemand 'no one', 'nobody')
Li: "niemand neej"

> /nargns/ nargens ~ /narms/ narms ~ /narns/ narns 'nowhere'
> (ook/also: /keinerweegens/ keenerwegens)
> (cf. NL nergens, Afr. nêrens nie 'nowhere')
> (cf. D nirgends, nirgendwo 'nowhere', irgend 'any')
> (cf. NL ergens, Afr. êrens 'anywhere')
Li: "èrres"; "nèrres"

> /jichtns/ jich(t)ens 'any'
> (> jichtenswo 'anyhow', jichtenseen 'anyone')
Li: "prell wai", "prell wi-e" (I guess prell comes from the French
pareille)

> /wou(ans/dennig)/ wo ~ woans ~ wodennig 'how'
> (cf. NL hoe, Afr. hoe 'how')
> (cf. D wie 'how')
Li: "wai"

Regards,
Roger

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From: niels winther [niels.winther at dfds.dk]
Subject: etymology

Ron wrote:
>  ...in Swedish wedding ceremonies of the 16th century a ring
>  was given as a _vartecken_ of ones promise of faithfulness,
>  and she went on to explain that this word _vartecken_
>  has a connection with the female pre-Christian deity
>  (_gudinna_ "goddess") Var, that a _vartecken_ is "Var's
>  token."<
> ...  <
>  Since Old Icelandic has _vara_, the argument could be made
>  that Swedish _vartecken_ and Danish _vartegn_ are Scandinavian
>  constructions. I doubt it, though.  I assume it is a
>  Middle Low Saxon (Middle Low German)  loan, certainly has
>  nothing to do with the deity Var, and I wonder if you agree
>  or know of sources that verify or disprove it. <

In Danish _Vartegn_ has primarily the meaning 'landmark', but
also 'warning' or 'characteristic, symbolic object'.
It has been used earlier for 'navigational mark' in general.

ODS (Ordbog over det danske Sprog) vol.26 states that
_vartegn_ is derived from MLG _warteken_ .

Norse had _vari_ 'care', 'meticulousness' ,'awareness'
      and _teikn_ 'token', 'sign' .

So although the two element were well-known,
the combination is a Low-Saxon loan.

There is nothing in the danish usage
that leads to the goddess Var.

rgds
niels

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From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Etymology

Thanks for the above, Roger and Niels.

Niels, you wrote:

> In Danish _Vartegn_ has primarily the meaning 'landmark', but
> also 'warning' or 'characteristic, symbolic object'.

The same applies in the cases of Modern Low Saxon (Low German) _Wahrteken_ and
German _Wahrzeichen_ also.  'Landmark' is the primary meaning.  I should have
made this clearer, but somehow it slipped my mind.  (I guess I can milk the
earthquake excuse for a little longer.  People still seem to be on edge around
here, and I'm no exception.)

I can't find equivalents in Norwegian, neither in Bokmål nor in Nynorsk.  If
there used to be any, they probably did not survive, as in Swedish.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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