LL-L: "Idiomatica" LOWLANDS-L, 01.MAY.2001 (02) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 01.MAY.2001 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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 A=Afrikaans, Ap=Appalachean, D=Dutch, E=English, F=Frisian, L=Limburgish
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From: "WIEBE,HAUKE (A-Scotland,ex1)" <hauke_wiebe at agilent.com>
Subject: LL-L: "Idiomatica" LOWLANDS-L, 01.MAY.2001 (01) [E]

Moin moin,

R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Idiomatica

> Hauke, you mentioned the former device being used in Low Saxon (Low
German).
> Really?!  How is it used?  Just like in English?
Yes, but as I say, I have been away a while and still struggle to remember a
specific example.

In addition to the above use, I remember it being used against third
persons.
in their absence (and usually not so jokingly)
I remember my aunt being told of for her "geharksch"
(The small bit of earth between roadkerb and pavement or pavement and garden
wall.)
Women of my aunts generation pride themselves in weeding and raking this
very neatly every morning. (together with washing the kerbstones and the
front step)
and judge severly those who do not.
(Gerharksch also exists between grave plots and graveyard walkways. Look
behind any respectably kept gravestone and you'll find and old rake retired
to this job usually because of a broken handle.)
"The Schroedersch saying, ME not doing my raking my geharksch...!"
"Really, if she doesn't watch out I'll give her geharksch a good raking,
really ...."

> Likewise the Yiddish-derived device Steven mentioned.  It involves
repeating
> the key word (i.e., the noun that denotes the item to be dismissed) while
> replacing the initial consonant with _shm_.  Some time ago I heard it used
in
> a joke, in connection with the almost customary Yiddish wishes for good
health
> (e.g., _gezunt zol er zayn!_ 'May he be in good health!'):
> "Agh, cancer-shmancer! [...]"

My wife who is Bengali uses the same device with Bengali words from time to
time,
and says it is quite common at least in her Calcutta family evn in 100%
Bengali sentences.
"rumal-shumal what are you lookig for that for now."
(rumal is handkerchief)
As a Bangali from a Calcutta family,
who herself grew up mainly in Kenya and Northern-Nigeria,
I doubt they had much exposure to Yiddish..
Although there is always the telly... of course.

Tschuess
Hauke

----------

R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Idiomatica

Hauke,

> My wife who is Bengali uses the same device with Bengali words from time > to
> time,
> and says it is quite common at least in her Calcutta family evn in 100%
> Bengali sentences.
> "rumal-shumal what are you lookig for that for now."
> (rumal is handkerchief)
> As a Bangali from a Calcutta family,
> who herself grew up mainly in Kenya and Northern-Nigeria,
> I doubt they had much exposure to Yiddish..
> Although there is always the telly... of course.

I suspect that this is coincidental, i.e., an unrelated but similar device.
First of all, the Yiddish-derived device requires _shm..._ and not _sh..._.
Secondly, although I have no examples right here right now, I seem to remember
that I have come across this and similar devices in Central Asian Turkic
languages, including in Uyghur "mocking songs" or "quarrel songs."  In fact,
_rumal_ or _romal_ is used in these languages also.  I understand that _rumal_
is an Iranian loan and may originally be Arabic.  The Indo-Aryan languages and
the languages of Islamic Turkic peoples have massive amounts of Iranian
(especially Farsi and Tajik) loans, and I would not be surprised to find out
that the device you described in Bengali were Iranian by origin.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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