LL-L: "Orthography" LOWLANDS-L, 23.MAY.2001 (01) [S]
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Wed May 23 17:29:40 UTC 2001
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L O W L A N D S - L * 23.MAY.2001 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans, Ap=Appalachean, D=Dutch, E=English, F=Frisian, L=Limburgish
LS=Low Saxon (Low German), S=Scots, Sh=Shetlandic, Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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From: Sandy Fleemin [sandy at scotstext.org]
Subject: "Orthography"
> From: Andy.Eagle at t-online.de (Andy Eagle)
> Subject: LL-L: "Orthography" [E/S]
>
> A tak it Burns wis adherein tae some kin o 'idea o leeterar style'. Gin
ye
> change his orra gremmar ye cooud aye pit the oreeginal turn o phrase tae
> shaw whit this 'idea o leeterar style' wis.
A'd say Burns gets the feck o his style aff o Fergusson,
an tae leuk at a swatch o Fergusson's poetry:
Whan Phoebus ligs in Thetis' lap,
Auld Reikie gies them shelter,
Whare cadgily they kiss the cap,
An' ca't round helter-skelter.
Jock Bell gaed furth to play his freaks,
Great cause he had to rue it,
For frae a stark Lochaber aix
He gat a _clamehewit_,
Fu' sair that night.
"Ohon!" quo' he, "I'd rather be
"By sword or bagnet stickit,
"Than hae my crown or body wi'
"Sic deadly weapons nickit."
Wi' that he gat anither straik
Mair weighty than before,
That gar'd his feckless body aik,
An' spew the reikin gore,
Fu' red that night.
Ye can see that on the ae haun, this is awfu guid Scots wi
nane o the "flichts o English" that's aa throu Burns. But
on the tither haun, in a daud o solid Scots like this it's
gey aesy seen that Fergusson juist didna hae ony bather wi
the idea o spellin Scots wirds the English wey whan the
soonds could be read the Scots wey bi a body that kens
their Scots - eg "round" _could_ be read [run], "weighty"
_could_ be read ['wE:xtI], an the like wi "night", "rather",
"deadly", an even "before" (tho "be-" for "a-" isna
aathegither English). The trouble whan this principle's
taen on bi Burns is that he haes a tendency tae uise English
for hiegher registers, sae it's no sae aesy tae haud tae yer
Scots wi Burns the wey it is wi Fergusson.
On the question o grammar, Fergusson wis writin at the end o
the Alexandrian era (he wis born no lang efter the daith o
Alexander Pope, an mind that he dee'd juist twinty-three year
efter), an the Alexandrians wis bad for ettlin at "betterin"
their English bi uisin artifeecial grammar. This is ae thing
whan it's duin in English - wi a guid writer ye haurly notice
it - but whan it's duin in Scots _wi English writers as the
model_ it can be a bit o a disaster. The Alexandrians herkent
back tae auld, formal uises o the saicont body (thee, thou &
thy) verbs that wis aaready on their road oot in Shakespear's
time (ye'll mibbie a noticed that Shakespear's inconsistent in
his uise o "thou" & "you"). Nou A think what happens is that
Fergusson disna uise "thou" &c hissel, sae no bein familiar
wi the Scots uise, he taks efter the English poets for things
that's oot o currency, an ends up wi:
Auld Reikie! thou'rt the canty hole,
A bield for mony a cauldrife soul,
Wha snugly at thine ingle loll,
Baith warm and couth;
While round they gar the bicker roll,
To weet their mouth.
An syne whan this style's taen up bi Burns, that haes smaa
eductation bi the likes o Fergusson, we git the muckle
inconsistencies in grammar, spellin, an even chyce o langage.
This, A think, is whaur Burns's idea o "literary style" comes
fae. Burns, need A say, is a international cless o poet wi a
strang vyce whan he writes in Scots, but thir kin o things can
tae scomfish it an scunner native spaekers forby.
For a peety, the "tu" form o "thou" still haes a limited
currency wi ma folk, sae A finnd this gey hard tae thole in
the likes o the verse abuin.
It's gey haurd tae see hou faur tae gae wi a verse like this.
A'd chainge "mouth" tae "mooth", nae bather, but what aboot
"thou'rt" an the English uised tae git the rhyme wi "hole"?
An it war aa up tae me, A'd hae (gien that A'd raither see
hauf-rhymes than bad grammar - an yet couldna gae as faur as
chaingin "roll" tae "rowe"!):
Auld Reekie! thoo's the canty hole,
A bield for mony a cauldrife sowel,
That snugly at thine ingle lolls,
Baith warm and couth;
While roond they gar the bicker roll,
Tae weet their mooth.
Bit in practice A think it wad hae tae be:
Auld Reikie! thou'rt the canty hole,
A bield for mony a cauldrife soul,
Wha snugly at thine ingle loll,
Baith warm and couth;
While roond they gar the bicker roll,
To weet their mooth.
> Dae ye juist pynt oot that a parteeclar owthor spak a parteeclar dialect
-
> for ordinar seen in the rhymes - Rhymin throu wi howe is S. or heid wi
lade
The'r nae rhymin help wi prose, tho! The'r the question an aa
o whether the rhymes is ful rhymes or juist assonances - a
poet could rhyme [Tru:] wi [hVu] or [hid] wi [le:d], or even
faa throu intae anither dialeck juist tae git the rhyme.
It's no aesy even tae recognise Aiberdeen-awa dialecks in
writin - mony sic writers writes "guid" for [gwi:d], an
some even writes "no" for "nae".
> in NEC etc.
> The onlie wirds that dinna fit is whaur dialects haes furms that dinna
hae
a
> raiglar correspondence (or A canna define it;-)) like NE 'wyme' for wame
or
> S thrae for frae etc.
> Mebbe ye coud write thae wirds italic or siclike and hae a wee jottin
whit
> the 'general Scots' is.
Again, A dout no! A'm tryin no tae loss sicht o the fack that
ScotsteXt is for readin an A'm efter keepin the "white" pairt
o the page clean. A ken the'r "dynamic" weys o haunlin this,
but as lang as Microsaft an Mozilla scrapes alang wi their
shairny technologies it's no worth the bather - the'r aye
something mair uisefu A could be daein on the site!
> Thare's a seemlar page on ma dictionar at
> www.scots-online.org/dictionary/spellguide.htm
> Ye can rive bits aff it gin ye want.
Thanks - your stuff's grand for reference but aye ower
advanced for what A hae in mind for Scotstext. ScotsteXt's
for readers an the'r nae pynt in makkin it harder on fowk
bi explainin aathing! A think ae wee page apiece for
spaekers o ilk dialeck an ane for folk that disna spaek
it'll dae for showin fowk hou tae read it richt.
Sandy
http://scotstext.org
A dinna dout him, for he says that he
On nae accoont wad ever tell a lee.
- C.W.Wade,
'The Adventures o McNab'
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