LL-L "Resources" 2001.11.09 (02) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 09.NOV.2001 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
 Web Site: <http://www.geocities.com/sassisch/rhahn/lowlands/>
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 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian L=Limburgish
 LS=Low Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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From: Holger Weigelt <platt at HOLGER-WEIGELT.DE>
Subject: LL-L "Resources" 2001.11.06 (01) [E]

Dear Lowlanders, hello Ron !

I can fully agree to Your words from the point of East Frisian Low German.
There are few textbooks if any to teach the language and they are German-
centered in the way You told. Much work was done to compile dictionaries.
No doubt they are usefull and we need them too but our language has an
other level beside pure vocabulary that can't be shown in conventionally
dictionaries. It is the system of phrases and phraseologisms that I mean
which often fits the needs for abstracts. For my own purposes years ago I
started to compile a collection of combined vocabulary and phraseologisms
but it is difficult to find a way of presentation making it an usefull
addition to dictionaries. Those phraseologisms show much about the special
way of thinking and the lost and reduction to pure vocabulary is a fact of
decline. If people aren't able to use them any more (or to vary them or
invent new ones in a dynamical process) it proves that they lost the own
mental world this language is based on.
The language should be tought as an own entity not as a part of German.
This is the context You must see my troubling about orthography in. There
is no need to make it look German. What we need is an orthographic system
that tells us (and those who want to learn the language or who will deal
with in later years) something about the phonological and grammatical
patterns. The German-based orthography is far from that. In the past LS was
mainly a spoken language and the written word had small if any influence on
the language. Therefore orthography wasn't too important. Today however we
have to do conservatory work and we have to fix it in a way later people
will be able to reconstruct what it was. And for the future the written
language will increase in importance. There is left few need for the LS
language in everyday communication but people use it for different reasons.
To be able to speak gives them identity or simply they love it and
therefore they will use it more in ways different to the past. It will for
example increasingly become a language of literature and music. (By the
way: With my children I learned that music - singing - is a very good
teacher for own and foreign languages.)
Another fact is that the nearer a minority language is related to the main
language of the country the more difficult it is for people to consider it
being fully self-dependent. This is a difficulty too for those people who
try to look on it in an other way. They are often misunderstood.

kind regards
Holger

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From: frank verhoft <frank_verhoft at yahoo.com>
Subject: Resources

Beste Laaglanders

Many thanks for all the suggestions and hints.

[Pat]
"Looking at literacy education into a second language
might turn up some references: I can vaguely remember
something about using Freire's liberation education in
California.  If that sounds useful, I will excavate to
that part of my office!"

[me]
I don't know Freire, but I'd appreciate the
references. I only hope that the archaeological
expotiton won't take you too much time!
Either way, many thanks already, and please be
careful!!

[Silvah]
"If you write a grammar book, make sure it also
contains notions that only native speakers
know...there are many things only native speakers can
know, and that you don't find in traditional grammar
books..."

[me]
I deliberately asked my original question in a vague
and open way, without being too specific, hoping of a
very wide range of answers. I am concentrating on the
so-called "tussentaal" (I asked questions about that
some months ago), the highly idiomatic lingo in
between Standard Dutch and dialect (can I translate it
as 'casual speech'??). I can imagine this sounds like
a kind of herecy, but I guess we already have had that
discussion.

[Ian & Ron]
"> Well, I'm not the list owner, but I would suggest
we
> deal with a lot of minority languages on the list,
and
> the issue of how to teach them (or even whether to
> teach them at all) is a live one.
I don't quite understand this, Ian, at least not the
list owner part."

[me]
To be honest, I have been doubting a long time myself
whether or not to post my previous mail via the LL-L,
because I thought it would be too off-topic. I'm
awfully glad it did make the records and I'm very
grateful for all the reactions and tips and hints and
related topics and references to related languages and
the evaluation of other language courses. There are
enough thoughts and useful remarks between the lines
to ponder about (and to make my nights even shorter
than it already are).

Met vriendelijke groeten,

Frank Verhoft

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