LL-L "Language varieties" 2001.11.09 (01) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 09.NOV.2001 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian L=Limburgish
 LS=Low Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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From: Holger Weigelt <platt at HOLGER-WEIGELT.DE>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2001.11.06 (05) [E]

Hello Ron !

It is right what You said about the meaning of the East Frisian substrate
for the developement of East Frisian Low Saxon. I always bear that in mind
and it is one of the reasons for me always to highlight that the language
I'm talking about is East Frisian LS (or East Frisian Platt as I prefer to
name it)in special. Until today a large part of EF vocabulary, some
phonological phenomenons and I'm sure some grammatical patterns that make
EFLS distinct from other LS varieties is/are of Frisian heritage. Up to
some degree an East Frisian will be able to adapt to written Frisian in its
western or some of the northern appearances without using a dictionary or
other help if he understands the spelling. The old East Frisian language
was extinct long ago but in East Frisia there are locally different levels
of persevering Frisian language heritage due to geological and sociological
features.
In the past some remote localities had been relatively isolated by moors or
swampy surrounding or by being islands. There Frisian lived longer and the
recent language is yet more influenced by this substrate than in other
areas more open to migration or general contact to the surrounding world.
Keep in mind that on the islands there were records of fully competent
Frisian speakers about 1900 and the last of them passed away many years
later.
The East Frisian language enclave of Saterland also persisted due to
relative isolation for long a time in the past.
On the other hand there is the Fehn-area. A group of young settlements
becoming a new home for people coming from all over East Frisia and partly
from outside creating a local idiom by integration of the different
individual idioms they brought with them from their former home villages.
Since the mobility of people has increased You often find individual
differences of talking (pronounciation, vocabulary) at the same locality
but there is actually no tendency to integrate and fix those to a closed
local idiom any longer.

kind regards
Holger

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language varieties

Moin, Holger!

Thank you very much for the overview of Eastern Friesland Low Saxon (Low
German).  (I prefer using "Eastern Friesland" to "East Frisian" in the name
because it denotes locatility and does not confuse the language issue.)

While Eastern Friesland Low Saxon definitely belongs to the Northern (Low)
Saxon dialect group, as do the Low Saxon dialects of Grönnen/Groningen in the
Netherlands, I am of the opinion that it ought to be considered its own
subgroup, if for no other reason than with reference to the variously strong
Frisian substrates.  As you have explained on a couple of occasion, it has
very different phonological features as well.  So, if some sort of language
unification and the creation of a standard written form should ever occur
(which is doubtful), I would not object to Eastern Friesland Low Saxon
creating its own standard or media variety, simply because it is so different
in many ways and its special features ought not be swept under the table but
ought to be cherished.  I wonder if the dialects of Emsland and
Grönnen/Groningen ought to be included, because they too have Frisian
substrates, although, technically speaking, not East Frisian ones but
"Central" and "West" (i.e., Westerlauwer) Frisian ones.

Which leads me to ask again my old question "Do East Frisians on the whole
still retain Frisian identity in their minds (despite the switch to Low
Saxon)?"  No one has ever given me a straight answer to this question.
Certainly, beyond remnants of Frisian language there are also Frisian cultural
relics.  (If this question sparks off a whole new subject we need to separate
this under the subject title "Ethnicity.")  I had always assumed that on the
whole Frisian identity is still at least somewhat alive in Eastern Friesland
(and apparently not in Western Grönnen/Groningen).  At least I have been using
this as ammunition in "combatting" the infamous East Frisian jokes in Germany
(calling them "ethnic slurs"), jokes that I find mean-spirited (although some
East Frisians have told me they don't mind them all that much) and believe
would not be indulged in so openly if people were aware that they target an
ethnic minority.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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