LL-L "Humor" (was "Language varieties") 2001.11.12 (01) [E]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 12.NOV.2001 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: Rudi Vari <rudi at its.co.za>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2001.11.09 (01) [E]

Hallo Lowlanders

Ron wrote:

> I had always assumed that on the whole Frisian identity is still at least
> somewhat alive in Eastern Friesland (and apparently not in Western
> Grönnen/Groningen).  At least I have been using this as ammunition in
> "combatting" the infamous East Frisian jokes in Germany (calling them "ethnic
> slurs"), jokes that I find mean-spirited (although some East Frisians have told
> me they don't mind them all that much) and believe would not be indulged in so
> openly if people were aware that they target an ethnic minority.

My reply may be off the subject line, but I could not suppress the
desire to
react. Ron, you resent EF being the butt of  "infamous" jokes -
something I can
well understand and which a lot of people could identify with. But do we
not have
this phenomenon in other languages as well? The Dutch joke about the
Belgians; the
Poles are often put in this rôle as are Murphy and Paddy in Ireland and
van der
Merwe in South Africa. I believe that these jokes are tongue-in-cheek
rather than
malicious - patronising perhaps but not necessarily mean spirited. After
all, what
would happen to all the thousands of jokes world-wide if the
"subject=butt" of the
joke is removed? Humour would certainly change drastically.

Perhaps this could start off a new thread: "Humour". What does the rest
of the
list think of all this?

Kind regards
Rudi Vári

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Humor

Rudi,

Thanks for your response and input.  You wrote:

> Ron, you resent EF being the butt of  "infamous" jokes - something I can
> well understand and which a lot of people could identify with. But do we > not have
> this phenomenon in other languages as well?

I hardly think that makes it right.

When I say "infamous" I have in mind some of the more extreme examples,
and you have to take my word for it that they are extreme and basically
say that East Frisians are just about the most uncouth, ignorant country
bumpkins there are.  It may be tongue in cheek for you, but what is it
to people, especially children, who know nothing else about East
Frisians?  "Arguments" such as laughing at political correctness and
that such phenomena are found practically everywhere carry no water with
me, are in my eyes only attempts at deflection.

My main point is that, in my opinion, in this day and age people are
less likely to be the butt of this type of joke (or of any other type)
if they are known and respected as an ethnic and cultural minority
within the same country.  Interlocal prejudices and stereotypes
expressed in "joke" form are usually more tolerated when they are
"within the family," i.e., within the same ethnic group.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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