LL-L "Place names" 2000.10.21 (01) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 21.OCT.2001 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian L=Limburgish
LS=Low Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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From: Criostoir O Ciardha <paada_please at YAHOO.CO.UK>
Subject: LL-L "Place names" 2000.10.20 (02) [E]

Dear all,

Ah, place-names in Scotland. *That* old conundrum. This is a huge and
open book and what we have to remember is that there are numerous sub-
and superstrata in Scottish placenames, more depending on the area (for
example, Strathclyde has a preponderance of Brythonic placenames,
Caithness Norse, Argyll "sliabh" names indicating Irish forms of
Gaelic). And of course then there's Pictish and pre-Indo-European
(apparently especially prevalent in the names of Shetland islands [sic]
such as Unst and Yell).

Therefore it might be best to think broadly in terms of all possible
cases where place-names might originate from, especially the Celtic,
rather than jumping straight to Germanic. Scots on the most part speak
Germanic, but their placenames are mostly Celtic or earlier.

I have a headache at the moment and so am of little use in guessing
where "camp" might originate, in Celtic. However, "cam" means "broken"
and is a common element in placenames. It's usually placed first,
though, and lenites the following word. So that might not be the best
candidate.

Go raibh maith agaibh,
Criostoir.

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From: niels winther [niels.winther at dfds.dk]
Subject: Place Names

* Ron, you wrote:

! ... Also, Scandinavian has cognates, e.g., Danish _kæmpe_ 'to fight'
! and _kamp_ 'fight', 'combat', which I assume to have begun as Middle
! Low Saxon loans(<*_kämpen_ and _kamp_).  I wonder if in Low Saxon
! the noun and with it the verb fell into disuse because of the noun
! _Kamp_ 'piece of soil', 'ground', 'area', 'field', 'paddock', etc.

Here are some other possible cognates from Danish:

 ? _kamp_                    : granite blocks as building material
 ? _kampesten_, _kampersten_ : granite boulder
 ? _kampesten_, _kampersten_ : stones collected from tilled fields

   _kap_, _kappestrid_       : fight, contest
 ? _kæmpe_                   : giant
   _kæmpe_                   : fighter´
   _kæmper_                  : fighter

Some further possible cognates from Jutish:

   _kamper_, _kampert_ : worn out horse (or individual)
                         from hard work

 ? _kamp_ (SWJ)        : hard pan, the hard cemented subsoil
                         under sandy leaking topsoils.

    and interestingly in NWJ:

   _kamp_,´_kamper_    : farmer  (derogatory by fisher or sailors)
   _kampe-_            : farmer-, country-, inland-, village-  do.
          _kampedreng_ : naive boy "from the country"          do.
          _kampemål_   : farmer language                       do.

 rgds
 niels

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